We are Having a Serious Emergency

Comment by James Trimm on July 24, 2012 at 10:06am

You know it seems whenever I post a fundraiser someone either posts or emails me telling me I should get a job.

So for the record:

1. I have a job, I have been laboring in the Word (1Tim. 5:17-18; 1Cor. 9:6-14) for most of the past 15 years.

2. Yes Paul had a secular job, he was a saddle maker not a tent maker ("Tent maker" is a mistranslation of the Aramaic) He also stated plainly that he did not have to have a secular job and that he and others who "labor in the word" have a right to expect to be supported by the community with the same support as those who labored in the Temple (the tithe) (1Tim. 5:17-18; 1Cor. 9:6-14).

3.  I had secular employment at one time and had to leave it years ago when my wife became disabled so I could care for her and our children.

4.  For those who prefer to tithe to widows and orphans (A) That is actually the third tithe (http://nazarenespace.com/page/the-tithe-of-yhwh) not the first tithe and (B) I am an orphan.

5.  Yes the tithe is for all generations forever and yes it is payable on non agricultural income. (http://nazarenespace.com/page/the-tithe-of-yhwh)

6.  The tithe belongs to YHWH (Lev. 27:30), is payable to those who labor in the word (1Tim. 5:17-18; 1Cor. 9:6-14), and the laborer is worthy of his wage (1Tim. 5:17-18; Mt. 10:10). How many of you have to ask for your paycheck, and when you do your employer accuses you of begging and suggests that you should get a second job and stop asking for a paycheck?

7.  Of those who criticize our fundrasing, how many are actually tithing anywhere?  If they are not tithing and they criticize fundrasing isn't that the spiritual equivalent of asking teachers to make bricks without straw?

Comment by James Trimm on July 24, 2012 at 10:44am

I do receive royalties for my book sales... altogether they average less than $500 a month... hardly enough to make a living.  We largely depend on tithes and offerings to pay for my full time efforts. 

I would love for tithes and offerings to this ministry to exceed enough for my full time efforts and basic ministry bills.  I wish I was never having to post things like "we are out of groceries" and instead was posting "we need to put more funds to this or that ministry project.

In the end I do believe that I am a laborer in the Word who is worthy of his wage.

My full time effort is in fact directed toward "ministry to the people of Israel and to the greater Nazarene Community".

Comment by James Trimm on July 24, 2012 at 12:44pm

>The saddle maker, never took a penny from the community.

True, but irrelevant since he also wrote:

Also, I only, and Bar Nabba, have we not the power not to work?
Who is this who labors in the service (ministry) by the expanse of his nefesh?
Or who is he who plants a vineyard and from its fruit does not eat?
Or who is he who tends the flock and from the milk of his flock does not eat?
Do I say these [things] as a son of man?
Behold, the Torah also said these [things]. For it is written in the Torah of Moshe,
`You shall not muzzle the ox that threshes.' (Deut. 25:4)
It is a concern to Eloah about oxen? But, it is known that because of us he
said [it] and because of us it was written, because it is a need [that] the plowman plow unto hope and he who threshes, unto the hope of the harvest. If we have sown spiritual [things] among you, is it a great [thing] if we reap [things] of the flesh from you? … those who labor [in] the Beit Kodesh [the Temple] are sustained from the Beit Kodesh and those who labor for the alter have a portion with the alter?
So also, our Adon commanded that those who are proclaiming his goodnews should live from his goodnews."
(1Cor. 9:6-14)

>You make 500.00 a month, I, being disabled, receive SSI of 698.00 a month. not nearly enough to live on.

Well I also support a disabled wife and five children of my own, plus another child whom we have taken in and are supporting as well.  

>Dr. Trimm, your tires for your car can wait. Walk, or take public transportation,
>and learn to be content with what things you have.

Not replacing the tires is not a viable option.  I also have an adult daughter who cannot drive and who relies on me for transportation to and from a part time job that is beyond walking distance.  There is no public transportation in my area, and even if it was, it would not be a reasonable way to transport groceries for a household of eight.  Frankly it would cost us more than the price of the tires not to replace them.

>Contentment with what we have is better than what you are doing now.
>You worry & fret, when our Abba owns all the cattle on a thousand hills and he sees the need.
>Yahshua says our responsibility is to seek the kingdom of Elohim and His righteousness,
>and every other need will be met. HalleluYah

The fact is there may well be people in the community that would step up to the plate if they knew what we were facing, but they cannot do that if I have the facts from them.  Suppose we said nothing and let our lives collapse around us, and then people would say "you should have said something, if we had only known we would have helped."

Its like the story of the man who is on top of his house during a flood.  Two boats and a helicopter offer him help, but he says he is trusting in God to help him.  He eventually drowns and goes before the Creator and says "how did you let this happen to me, I trusted in you?"  And the Creator responds "What are you talking about, I sent two boats and a helicopter".

In this case not posting anything about the crisis we are facing would be like that man never even coming out on his roof where the boats and helicopters could even see him, and then asking the Creator why He never sent help.

Comment by James Trimm on July 24, 2012 at 9:53pm

The tithe belongs to YHWH (Lev. 27:30), is payable to those who labor in the word (1Tim. 5:17-18; 1Cor. 9:6-14), and the laborer is worthy of his wage (1Tim. 5:17-18; Mt. 10:10). How many of you have to ask for your paycheck, and when you do your employer accuses you of begging and suggests that you should get a second job and stop asking for a paycheck?

Comment by James Trimm on July 24, 2012 at 11:50pm

Actually Armstrong is a bad example.  Armstrong taught tithing

http://www.herbert-armstrong.org/Books%20&%20Booklets/Tithing%2...

And Armstrong received a salary as Pastor General of the Church.

HOWEVER as I said just a few months ago:

 

The old Worldwide Church of God under Armstrong had a disproportionate effect on the World, popularizing the seventh day Sabbath, the Biblical feasts, abstinence from pagan customs, and even a form of two house theology, in the mid to late 20th century! There were only about 60,000 members, but they opened two college campuses, produced weekly radio and TV programs, distributed free books and booklets, a free correspondence class and a free news magazine which had more subscribers than Time, Newsweek, and US News and World Report COMBINED. They had a disproportionate effect on theology of the twentieth century, frankly setting the stage in many ways for this restoration.

How did a few thousand people have such a disproportionate impact? They tithed and they were serious about tithing. Now you may say the economy is bad, well Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God was established during the Great Depression, yet they tithed and had a disproportionate impact on the world.

Well we can also have a disproportionate impact on the world as well, and this new project will help us to do so. But to do this, we need Nazarenes to get serious about the tithe.

 

Armstrong is also a bad example because Armstrong was criticized for raking in millions in tithes and offerings from his followers and living in excess:

http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/recovery/back/rich.htm

while I struggle to survive and live in poverty.

Now this might surprise you.  From time to time I have been asked my opinion of Herbert W. Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God.

Let me begin by saying that I do not agree with everything Armstrong taught. However Armstrong taught many truths that were definitely on the cutting edge for his time.

The very name “Church of God” though still using gentilized terminology was a Scriptural name, as the Body of Messiah is generally referred to in the Ketuvim Netzarim (the so-called “New Testament”) as the “Assembly of Elohim” (for which reason WNAE takes the name “Worldwide Nazarene Assembly of Elohim”).

Armstrong taught seventh day, evening to evening Sabbath observance, while exposing the pagan origins and nature of Sunday Worship.

Armstrong taught the Scriptural feasts (which also happen to be the Jewish Holidays) while exposing the pagan origins and nature of the Pagan holidays like Halloween, Christmas and Easter.

Armstrong also criticized pagan customs in general, not just Pagan holidays and Sunday worship.

And long before the so-called “Two House” movement, Armstrong was teaching:

“The peoples of the United States, the British Commonwealth nations, and the nations of northwestern Europe are, in fact, the peoples of the Ten Tribes of the House of Israel. The Jewish People are the House of Judah.”
-The United States and Britain in Prophecy, ninth ed. P. 144; Herbert W. Armstrong

Not long before his death in 1986, Armstrong finally came to the following far reaching conclusion:

"Satan has deceived this world's churches into the
belief that God's law was done away-that Jesus, rather than paying the
price in human stead for transgressing the law, did away with
it-"nailing it to his cross." The expression used by Protestants
"nailing the law to his cross" can mean only one thing. This is
Satan's teaching that by being nailed to the cross, Christ
abolished the law, making it possible for humans to sin with impunity.
What actually was nailed to the cross was Christ our sin bearer, who
took on himself our sins, paying the death penalty in our stead, so
that we are freed from the ultimate penalty of sinning, not made free
to sin with impunity. The very basic teaching, belief AND DOCTRINE OF
God's true Church therefore is based on the righteousness of and
obedience to the law of God."
-Mystery of the Ages; Herbert W. Armstrong p. 274

Unfortunately Armstrong died before he was able to fully explore and implement the far reaching implications of this astounding revelation. Armstrong had realized that it was not just the Sabbath we should be keeping, not just the Holy Days, not just bits and pieces of the Torah, but that the Torah had never been done away with at all. Had Armstrong lived to fully implement this revelation, the old WWCG would have started wearing Tzitzit (Numbers 15:37-41) putting a mezuzah on the door (Deut. 6:8-9; 11:18-20), wearing tefillin (Deut. 6:8; 11:18; Ex. 13:9; 13:16; Mt. 23:5) etc.

For this reason I say that in a world that was blind, Armstrong saw with blurred vision.

Comment by AbbaGal on July 25, 2012 at 1:31pm

James,

We just had to buy two new front tires too! We didn't know where the funds would come from and Yahuah provided. Jim uses the car for his job 60 miles everyday on a dangerous road.

We didn't know where a job would come from and Yahuah provided.

We didn't know where a home would be for us to live in and Yahuah provided.

Never once did I ask online for provision and Yahuah provided.

HE sees & knows exactly our needs and will meet them as HE SEES fit. I believe this. Both

Jim and I TRUST Yahuah with ALL our hearts.

Love to you and your family, May Yahuah provide for you as you trust in HIM,

AbbaGal

Comment by James Trimm on July 25, 2012 at 1:50pm

Yes He does, and being in full time ministry, more often than not, He provides in my case through those who support the work I am doing.  Thank you all for your continued support, with your help I hope we will emerge from this crisis. 

Comment by James Trimm on July 25, 2012 at 10:32pm

>Since The Aaronic kehunnah has been replaced by the Melchizedek kehunnah,
>and since this kehunnah is made up of the entire body of Messiah,
>there is no one person that is entitled to receive a tithe;
>for we all are to minister, one to another, and to the world.

Ok to begin with the Melchizadek Priesthood is not an New Testament order of Priests.

The concept of a Melchizadek priestood is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

    Actually in English we hear "order" and we think of an "order" of monks or nuns, and so some read of a priesthood "after the order of Melchizadek" and they think it is some "Order" of Priests.

    In fact this is not what the Hebrew phrase indicates. The Hebrew word translated "order" is DIVRA and the word for "after" is AL (a very ambiguous preposition which most often means "about" or "concerning" but can also have many other meanings like "above" or "over" or "against" etc. . DIVRA means literally "cause" or "reason" and the phrase AL DIVRA could literally be translated "after the reason/cause of Melchizadek" that is to say "A priest for the same reason as Melchizadek." How was Melchizadek a Priest without being a Levite? Simple, he recieved the priesthood before it was limited to Levites only. Messiah was a priest forever "for the same reason" as Melchizadek, like Melchizadek, Messiah receive the priesthood BEFORE it was restricted to Levites only.

    I would add that Heb. 7:21 calls this an "unchangeable" priesthood. The word here can literally be rendered to mean "non-transferable" . In other words this priesthood is "unchangeable" in that it can not be transferred from one person to another.

The High Priesthood could be transferred from one High Priest to another, but the "priesthood" that Messiah had "by the same reason as Melchizadek" (i.e. that he had from BEFORE the time of the Aaronic Priests) was not like the High Priesthood of Aaron in that it was non-transferable, it was Messiah's and only Messiah's forever.

The passage "a priest forever after the order of Melchizadek" in the Hebrew may also be translated "a priest forever BY THE SAME REASON as Melchizadek" ... Messiah was a Priest forever of the same "order" or "reason" as Mlechizadek.  melchizadek was a priest without being a Levite because he recieved his priesthood BEFORE it was limited to only Levites.  Messiah likewise in his prexistant state also recieved the priesthood before it had been limited to Levites... thus he was a priest without being a Levite because he was a priest "by the same reason as" of "after the order of" Melchizadek.  

Some misunderstanding has been created from the Greek version of Hebrews 7:12 which reads:

For the priesthood being changed,
there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
- Heb. 7:12 KJV (from the Greek)

However the word for "change/changed" here in the Hebrew is SHENISHTANA from the verb root SH-N-H (Strong's 8131) meaning "to repeat, to do a second time" thus the Hebraic Roots Version reads:

It is saying that according to which there is a repetition of the
office of the priesthood, of necessity it is saying there is a repetition of the Torah.
- Heb. 7:12 HRV

In the original Hebrew there is no indication that the Torah or any of its commandments are changed, only that they are repeated.  This repetition is all part of the renewal of Torah which is a primary paradigm of the Book of Hebrews in the original Hebrew.


Now some have taught that the tithe Melchizadek paid was not the same Tithe mentioned in the Mosaic Torah from which the Levites were paid. This is also not true, as Paul argues in the book of Hebrews:

4 Consider and see his greatness, which also Avraham our father, gave to him a tenth
from the spoil.
5 And also the sons of L'vi collect for the priesthood, having received a commandment
to collect the tithe from the people, according to the decree of the Torah. And this is of
their brothers, although having come from the loins of Avraham.
6 Truly he who is not from their tribe, has received the tithe from Avraham, and blessed
those, who are blessed, to him.
7 And behold, this no one disputes: that the lesser is blessed by the greater.
8 Behold here, sons of man which die, receive tithes: but sleep received he of whom it is
said that He lives.
9 For so to say, that to he who was accustomed to take the tithe, he also tithes through
Avraham.
10 For He was yet in the loins of the Father, when He met, he who was called Malki-
Tzedek.
(Heb. 7:4-10 HRV)

The whole logic of Paul’s argument here is based in the fact that the tithe that Avram paid to Melchizadek was EXACTLY the same tithe that the Levites were paid from.

Finally your interpretation itself would effectively void Paul's own words elsehere:

Those elders who conduct themselves well
should be esteemed worthy of double honor,
especially those who labor in the word and
in teaching, For the Scripture says that
`you should not muzzle the ox, while threshing,' (Deut. 25:4)
and `the laborer is worthy of his wage." (Mt. 10:10)
(1Tim. 5:17-18)

Paul also expands on this thought in 1Cor. 9:6-14:

Also, I only, and Bar Nabba, have we not the power not to work?
Who is this who labors in the service (ministry) by the expanse of his nefesh?
Or who is he who plants a vineyard and from its fruit does not eat?
Or who is he who tends the flock and from the milk of his flock does not eat?
Do I say these [things] as a son of man?
Behold, the Torah also said these [things]. For it is written in the Torah of Moshe,
`You shall not muzzle the ox that threshes.' (Deut. 25:4)
It is a concern to Eloah about oxen? But, it is known that because of us he
said [it] and because of us it was written, because it is a need [that] the plowman plow unto hope and he who threshes, unto the hope of the harvest. If we have sown spiritual [things] among you, is it a great [thing] if we reap [things] of the flesh from you? … those who labor [in] the Beit Kodesh [the Temple] are sustained from the Beit Kodesh and those who labor for the alter have a portion with the alter?
So also, our Adon commanded that those who are proclaiming his goodnews should live from his goodnews."
(1Cor. 9:6-14)

To the contrary Paul teaches a principle by which those who are proclaiming his goodnews should be supported for doing so, just as those who labor in the Temple and for the alter are supported for doing so. In other words, Paul draws a midrash from the fact that Levites and Priests received tithes and offerings (the same support as those who labored at the alter and in the Temple) to teach a principle that "those who labor in the word and teach" should be supported with tithes and offerings.


>These [funds?] (in Moses' and Yahshua's day these funds were more food stuffs,
>although money too was invovled) should be "deposited with the president,
>who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sicknessor any other cause,
>are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers among us,
>and in a word takes care of all who are in need." (Justin Martyr Book 1 chapter 48)

Well Justin Martyr does not speak for Nazarene Judaism but for Gentile Christianity of his time.

>The apostle James was inspired to write: "For the religion that is pure and qodesh before
>Elah the Father, is this: 'to visit the fatherless and the widows in their affliction,
>and that one keep himself unspotted from the world'."
>(James 1:27 James Murdock Translation. [pagan wording removed as much as I understand at presant])

Agreed and this is the object of the second tithe every third year (sometimes calle the third tithe):

There are actually two tithes in the Mosaic Covenant which were tied to the seven year cycle of the Land. The first tithe (Masserot) is due every year.

The second tithe (Maaser Sheni) was converted to money and used to make a personal pilgrimage to Jerusalem. The "pilgrim" could spend this money however he liked on the pilgrimage but was expected to treat the Levites to a feast as well upon his arrival and any surplus was given to the Levites (Deut. 14:22-27). Every third year however the tither used this second tithe (some all this third year tithe as a "third tithe") to feed the needy and local Levites (Deut. 14:28-29). Thus the Mosaic tithing schedule goes like this:

Year

1. First Tithe: Levites; Second Tithe: Pilgrimage and Levites

2. First Tithe: Levites; Second Tithe: Pilgrimage and Levites

3. First Tithe: Levites; Third Tithe: Feeds the needy and Levites

4. First Tithe: Levites; Second Tithe: Pilgrimage and Levites

5. First Tithe: Levites; Second Tithe: Pilgrimage and Levites

6. First Tithe: Levites; Third Tithe: Feeds the needy and Levites

7. The Sabbath of the land, only the First Tithe was paid on any volunteer crop and on other non-planted produce.

(The first tithe could only be converted into money by paying a 20% penalty (Lev. 27:31) however the second tithe was generally converted to money as a matter of course (Deut. 14:25).)

The three Tithes are laid out in the book of Tobit as follows:

6 And I went to Yerushulayim at the appointed times as it is written in the Torah of YHWH concerning Yisrael in firstfruits and tithes and firstlings.
7 To the priests, sons of Aharon and new wine and fat and labors and pomegranates and from all fruits of the ground to the sons of Levi, ministers before, the presence of YHWH in Yerushalayim, and the second tithe. (8) And the third tithe to the stranger, to the orphan and to the widow. And I would go in every year with all these, to Yerushalayim by the commandments of YHWH and according to that duty upon me, Devorah mother of my Father.
(Tovi (Tobit) 1:6-7 HRV – From our ongoing work :-) )

And in addition one can also make charitable donations to widows orphans and the poor.

(For the record this is really a non argument anyway as I am both poor and an orphan)

And again your interpretation itself would effectively void Paul's own words elsehere:

Those elders who conduct themselves well
should be esteemed worthy of double honor,
especially those who labor in the word and
in teaching, For the Scripture says that
`you should not muzzle the ox, while threshing,' (Deut. 25:4)
and `the laborer is worthy of his wage." (Mt. 10:10)
(1Tim. 5:17-18)

Paul also expands on this thought in 1Cor. 9:6-14:

Also, I only, and Bar Nabba, have we not the power not to work?
Who is this who labors in the service (ministry) by the expanse of his nefesh?
Or who is he who plants a vineyard and from its fruit does not eat?
Or who is he who tends the flock and from the milk of his flock does not eat?
Do I say these [things] as a son of man?
Behold, the Torah also said these [things]. For it is written in the Torah of Moshe,
`You shall not muzzle the ox that threshes.' (Deut. 25:4)
It is a concern to Eloah about oxen? But, it is known that because of us he
said [it] and because of us it was written, because it is a need [that] the plowman plow unto hope and he who threshes, unto the hope of the harvest. If we have sown spiritual [things] among you, is it a great [thing] if we reap [things] of the flesh from you? … those who labor [in] the Beit Kodesh [the Temple] are sustained from the Beit Kodesh and those who labor for the alter have a portion with the alter?
So also, our Adon commanded that those who are proclaiming his goodnews should live from his goodnews."
(1Cor. 9:6-14)

To the contrary Paul teaches a principle by which those who are proclaiming his goodnews should be supported for doing so, just as those who labor in the Temple and for the alter are supported for doing so. In other words, Paul draws a midrash from the fact that Levites and Priests received tithes and offerings (the same support as those who labored at the alter and in the Temple) to teach a principle that "those who labor in the word and teach" should be supported with tithes and offerings.

>Your tires may fit the need, but your begging, did you read what AbbaGal had to say?
>There is nowhere that I know of in Qodesh Scripture that Elohim's people begged like you beg.
>It just shouldn't be.

OK since you wish to drive the point I will be real blunt.  

Imagine a man has a job and his employer is comitted to paying hime $1000 a month, but for some time now his paychecks have only had $500.  The man says nothing because he enjoys his work and knows it is to important to leave undone (lets say he is a Physician). Additionally he is grateful for the money he does recieve and does not want to vcome accross as ungrateful or judgmental when he is neither. But on occasion he finds himself in deep financial trubble and cannot feed his family, so he goes to his employer and asks for help.  Is this man begging?  Of course not.

The tithe belongs to YHWH (Lev. 27:30), is payable to those who labor in the word (1Tim. 5:17-18; 1Cor. 9:6-14), and the laborer is worthy of his wage (1Tim. 5:17-18; Mt. 10:10). I can tell you that the vast majority of Nazarenes are not tithing.  Many donate $20 here or $50 there and we apreciate it GREARTLY so do not get me wrong.  I can tell you that if even a fairly small percentage of Nazarenes were tithing, there would be no shortfal in meeting my basic needs (giving me a fair wage so I can feed my family etc.) and have plenty left to spend on ministry efforts beyond just compensating me for my time.  

How many of you have to ask for your paycheck, and when you do your employer accuses you of begging and suggests that you should get a second job and stop asking for a paycheck?

I am like the man in the above parable... if finally I must ask for extra help... am I begging?

Comment by James Trimm on July 26, 2012 at 2:46pm

No argument over the word KEHUNNAH I was just not expecting to see you use it. 

Comment