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Doug Ri
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Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What is the Mark of the Beast?
"I'm just saying, James, the early Church met daily and sold all their possessions and shared all things as common just as Yeshua taught was required for being a disciple.  When you marry you move out of your father's house and live…"
13 hours ago
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What is the Mark of the Beast?
"James,I always thought of the beast as the secular system that says man descended from beasts.  I always thought of the harlot (whether catholic, protestant of 7th day adventist etc) as the false religious system that gives you all of the good…"
15 hours ago
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What is the Mark of the Beast?
"The disciples of John thought the antichrist would be from the Jews.  I think they connected it with the little horn which ripped up the 3 other horns which they believed would be Egypt, Assyria and Egypt.Those disciples were trained by John…"
Thursday
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What is the Mark of the Beast?
"I agree "
Thursday
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What is the Mark of the Beast?
"The disciples of the apostle John did not know anything about computers so they thought it may be that people would have to burn incense to Cesar before buying anything.  The important thing is that all those who do not have the seal of our…"
Thursday
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What became of the Lost Ten Tribes?
"David,Many of the native American languages, I know Hopi for one, are verbal languages just like OT Hebrew."
Thursday
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What became of the Lost Ten Tribes?
"According to a Maronite Christian lady from Lebanon most of the "Palestinians" were Jews who were too poor to pay the infidel tax so they converted to Islam.  Didn't most of the Edomites die toward the fall of Rome? Do you think…"
Aug 22
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion What became of the Lost Ten Tribes?
"There's a tribe on a mountain near Israel that claims to have records going back to the temple "
Aug 17
Doug Ri commented on James Trimm's blog post Nazarene Judaism and Modern Israel
"Gentile kings were used to restore Israel in Ezra and Israel was still involved in idolatry when they returned and repented later."
Aug 2
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion Why do we Pray?
"Part of the reason I pray is to remind myself of our father in heaven.  It keeps me on track and honed to him.  One of our needs He knows is a need to interact with Him."
Jul 28
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion Who are the Two Witnesses?
"One witness against the unbelievers that they crucified Messiah is that they kill the true believers."
Jul 19
Doug Ri replied to James Trimm's discussion Who are the Two Witnesses?
"I don't know but I believe it is related to Yeshua saying where two or more of you are gathered when there are no true Churches during the tribulation."
Jul 13
Doug Ri commented on James Trimm's blog post How the Church Fathers Invented Christianity
"Can you show me to the link of things we are not allowed to discuss here?  How about if I go to the article and post the quote and reference from Josephus there and someone can address it.  For me it's a learning experience and I have…"
Apr 18
Doug Ri commented on James Trimm's blog post How the Church Fathers Invented Christianity
"I didn't know.  I never mentioned it before  Seems unfair that you wrote a whole article on it but it can't be debated.  I wasn't trying to promote it.  I just read it the other day and had no idea it was…"
Apr 18
Doug Ri commented on James Trimm's blog post How the Church Fathers Invented Christianity
"It was related to keeping the law in context and completely. In your link you said "If the Essenes kept a different Sabbath from the other Jews, it would seem very odd for Josephus not to mention that here."    Seems like my…"
Apr 18
Doug Ri commented on James Trimm's blog post How the Church Fathers Invented Christianity
"According to what I read from the Chronicle Project of Canada and from the writings of Josephus the sabbath is reset every month. http://thechronicleproject.org/PDF1/newslettermain.pdf “Because the weekly cycle started over with each new moon,…"
Apr 18

Profile Information

Books I consider Canonical:
Tanak (Old Testament), Ketuvim Netzarim (New Testament)
Marital Status
Married
Interests:
truth, edible and medicinal plants, animals, farming,
What is your favorite Book of the Scriptures?
Genesis-Revelations
What is your favorite verse?
Judges 9:8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us.
9 But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honor God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
10 And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us.
11 But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?
12 Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us.
13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.
15 And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.
How did you hear of NazareneSpace?
google search topic

Comment Wall (36 comments)

At 8:44pm on January 22, 2012, Trisha Clover said…

    Thanks Doug!

At 8:48pm on January 22, 2012, Trisha Clover said…

Tell me sometime when you feel like it, I'm very interested. but I really like what you shared about the law telling us all about Him.

At 11:07pm on January 22, 2012, Doug Ri said…

I was going to share about the community I was in as an example of something but I forget what it was.  

I was raised without the law but 17 I became a believer and started taking the sabbath day to rest.  I wasn't part of a church the first 3 years I believed but it was a day I did no work and when I could I'dwalk in the fields by myself.  Fallen man only made it to the 7th day and YHWH rested and Adam and Eve ate and YHWH came back but there's another day - if you make a bicycle and it takes 7 days and you rest you are not going to make a bicycle again but ride it.  The 8th day is the eternal reign of Messiah.
Circumcision is on the 8th day cause Adam and Eve were put out of Eden and cut off from eternal life after the 7th day.  It's supposed to make us seek the creator in our youth - something is missing related to creation.  I wrote a poem about it once called Phantom Limb.


A lot of people have tried to vex me about keeping the law and make me sin conscious but it doesn't work any more.   I don't work on saturday and I go to my parents for passover and haven't eaten traif since I was a youth but I don't know much about the deeper truth of the other holidays and never tried to keep them and the only reason I want to learn about them is so I can understand what they have to do with Messiah.  

Meanwhile more important than not lifting weight or working is confessing my sins so I can enter into YHWH's rest for if I have unconfessed sin on the sabbath day what joy is there?

The whole backward walk I posted about, the last/passover supper was a fulfillment of passover (the entire law was fulfilled) and I believe satan was bound at the cross and the thousand years is not literal but symbolic and satan will be loosed for the tribulation, for starters to rule the outward form of church.  I wrote a parable about it las time I was injured by a pastor in a men's bible study if you're interested.  

I'm gonna check my e mail and then hit the hay. Nice meeting you, Later Doug 

At 10:13am on January 23, 2012, Levi Ben David said…

thanks for accepting, YHWH Bless.

At 8:16am on January 27, 2012, James Trimm said…

>You have to understand that Messiah fulfilled the law. 

 

From my Hebraic Roots Commentary to Matthew at

http://nazarenespace.com/page/books-dvds

 

5:17  Think not that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets, I have come not to abolish, but to fulfill.  – This is the only passage from the New Testament which is actually quoted, or more correctly paraphrased, in the Talmud.  In the Talmud a certain Nazarene Judge is cited as having quoted the following phrase from a book called the Nwylgnw) ”The Good News”.

 

            I have not come to take away from the Torah of Moshe

            and I have not come to add to the Torah of Moshe

            (b.Shabbat 116)

 

This passage refers to a Torah command which forbids adding to, or subtracting from, the Torah (Deut. 4:2; 12:32).  The Tanak states clearly that the Torah would never be abolished:

 

...it shall be a statute forever

to their generations.... (Ex. 27:21)

 

...it shall be a statute forever to him

and his seed after him. (Ex. 28:43)

 

...a statute forever... (Ex. 29:28)

 

...it shall be a statute forever to them,

to him and to his seed

throughout their generations. (Ex. 30:21)

 

It is a sign between me

and the children of Israel forever. (Ex. 31:17)

 

There is no shortage of passages in the Torah which specify that the Torah will not be abolished but will be for all generations forever. (For more see: Lev. 6:18, 22; 7:34, 36; 10:9, 15; 17:7; 23:14, 21, 41; 24:3; Num. 10:8; 15:15; 18:8, 11, 19, 23; 19:10 and Deut. 5:29)

 

At 8:16am on January 27, 2012, James Trimm said…

Moreover the Psalmist writes:

 

Your word is truth from the beginning:

and every one of your righteous judgments endures forever.

(Psalm 119:160)

 

Furthermore the Tanak tells us that the Torah is not to be changed or taken away from:

 

You shall not add to the word

which I command you,

neither shall you diminish a thing from it,

that you may keep the commandments

of YHWH your God which I command you.

(Deut 4:2)

 

Whatever thing I command you,

observe to do it: you shall not add thereto,

nor diminish from it.

(Deut. 12:32)

 

Similarly Paul writes:

 

Do we make the Torah of no effect by trust?

Absolutely not! On the contrary, we uphold the Torah!

(Rom. 3:31)

 

Despite the fact that David was saved by faith alone (Rom. 4:5-8) he loved the Torah and delighted in it (Ps. 119: 97, 113, 163). Paul (Paul) also delighted in the Torah (Rom. 7:22) and called it "holy, just and good." (Rom. 7:12). There is nothing wrong with the Torah that God should want to abolish or destroy it, in fact both the Tenach and the New Scriptures call the Torah "perfect" (Ps. 19:7; James 1:25).

 The Torah is even called in the New Testament "the Torah of Messiah" (Gal. 6:2). To say that the Torah was not forever and is not for all generations, is to call YHWH a liar.

 

Abolish/destroy…fulfill – In Hebrew and Aramaic these are idiomatic expressions.  To “fulfil” the Torah means to keep and teach the Torah according to its true meaning.  To “destroy” the Torah is to teach its meaning in correctly and to violate Torah.  Yeshua came to teach the true meaning of Torah, thus in 5:21f he will teach the true meaning of various commandments of the Torah. 

 

There is a false theology that teaches that “fulfilled” the law means that He fulfilled the law, so we don’t have to.  The problem with this thinking is that Yeshua did not keep the whole law.  Let me explain, I do agree that Yeshua never violated Torah, but he only kept the portions which applied to him.  For example, he never went to be washed after a menstruation period…. Now you might think that is silly, but the reality is that it means a woman cannot say “I do not have to go be washed after my menstruation period anymore because ‘Jesus’ did that for me.” And so the theology that says Yeshua fulfilled the law so we don’t have to falls. 

 

In fact to “fulfill” means “to fill up completely”… now when you fill up your gas tank, do you then discard it?  Of course not!

 

In fact the context of this teaching is:

 

"Do not think that I have come to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one yud or one mark will by no means pass from the Torah till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, he will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever does and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

At 8:17am on January 27, 2012, James Trimm said…

>The sacrificial system is defunct. 

 

Paul said that they continue each year as a remembrance (Heb. 10:12) when the Temple is rebuilt lets fire up the alter.

 

Messiah is the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world his death had an

effect from the beginning of time and not just from around 32 CE forward. 

 

1. The offerings continued each year as a remembrance (Heb. 11:2-2)

 

2. Paul made offerings at the Temple long after Yeshua's death

(Acts 21:17-26/Num. 6:13-21; Acts 24:17-18 see also Acts 18:18/Num. 6:13-21)

 

3. The offerings will be made at the Millennial Temple.  (Ezek. 43:18-27)

At 8:17am on January 27, 2012, James Trimm said…

>Our creator allowed polygamy but when Messiah came to make

>the many one it was no longer tolerated

 

One of the halachic principles which distinguished the Essenes from the Pharisees (whom the Essenes termed “Wall Builders”) was a principle the Essenes called “Yesod HaB’riah” (The Principle/Foundation of Creation).

 

The Pharisees were divided on the issue of divorce. The House of Shammai allowed

divorce only in the case of an “unclean matter” while the House of Hillel allowed divorce

even if the wife only spoiled a dish, and Akiva stretched this to allow a man to divorce

his wife because he found a prettier one (m.Gittin 9:10)

 

The Essenes said the Pharisees had fallen into a trap of Belial saying:

 

They are caught in…Fornication, by taking two wives

in their lifetime although the Principle of Creation (Yesod HaBriah)

is “male and female He Created them” (Gen. 1:27) and those who

entered the ark “went into the ark two by two” (Gen. 7:9). Concerning

the Leaders it is written “he shall not multiply wives to himself” (Dt. 17:17)

(Damascus Document 4,20-5,2)

 

The Essenes were accusing the Pharisees of effectively practicing polygamy in allowing divorce so easily, and in doing so, violating the Yesod HaBriah.

 

No doubt Messiah is citing Yesod HaBriah (The Principle of Creation) when he has the following halachic debate with a group of Pharisees:

 

19:3 And the P’rushim approached him, and tempted him,

saying, “Is it right for a man to put away his wife for every cause?”

19:4 And he answered and said to them:

"Have you not read that he who made man the beginning,

'made them male and female' (Gen. 1:27)

19:5 And said,

'Wherefore shall a man shall leave his father

and his mother, and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh' (Gen. 2:24)

19:6 And now then, they are no more two but one flesh

only. What therefore Elohim has joined together man cannot separate."

19:7 But they said,

"And why then did Moshe then command

to give a bill of divorcement, and to put her away

if she was not pleasing in his sight?” (Deut. 24:1, 3)

19:8 And he answered them and said,

"Because Moshe on account of the hardness of your hearts,

allowed you to put away your wives,

but from the beginning it was not so.

19:9 And I tell you,

every man that has put away, or shall put away his wife,

except it be for fornication, and takes another,

commits adultery. And whoever takes the divorced also

commits adultery.

(Mt. 19:3-9)

At 8:18am on January 27, 2012, James Trimm said…

Notice that divorce and polygamy equally fall under the violation of the Yesod HaBriah. Neither actually violates the Torah itself, but both violate a halachic principle which is preferred.

 

Notice that Yeshua treats divorce as a last resort, which YHWH does not forbid, but does discourage. YHWH recognized that divorces happen in society and thus the Torah regulates divorce. The Torah does not encourage divorce, and certainly does not find it a blessing, because it violates the Yesod HaBriah (Principle of Creation).

 

Polygamy, like divorce, violates the Yesod HaBriah. The Torah does not forbid polygamy, it recognized that polygamy was practiced and thus regulated it. The Torah did not encourage polygamy, and certainly does not find it to be a blessing, because it violates the Yesod HaBriah (Principle of Creation).

 

Now imagine a leader in the movement wrote a book encouraging men to divorce their wives because they found prettier women, or because their food was not cooked to suite them. Imagine that the book called this a “shocking freedom” and a blessing even for women. Imagine the leader sends out an email soliciting pretty women to match with these men who are ready to divorce. Imagine he changes the whole focus of his ministry to promoting divorce to find prettier women. What would you expect the Overseers to do?

 

Just as divorcing a wife for a prettier woman violates the Yesod HaBriah, so does Polygamy. While polygamy does not violate the Torah, it does violate the Yesod HaBriah. A leader within the movement who encourages polygamy should be treated just as one who encourages divorcing wives for prettier women, and solicits pretty women to step into the dissolved marriages.

 

I hope this clarifies my position for those who wonder how I can say polygamy is not forbidden by Torah, while labeling leaders who encourage it as wolves among the sheep.

 

The point is that Yeshua taught that Polygamy violated the principle of creation “in the beginning” not just from his time forward,

At 8:18am on January 27, 2012, James Trimm said…

>We are married to Messiah, not the law. 

 

I think you are expressing a misunderstanding of Romans 7

 

The following is from the Hebraic Roots Commentary to Romans based on

the Hebraic Roots Commentary at

http://nazarenespace.com/page/books-dvds

 

 

7:1 Or do you not know, my brothers, (for I speak to learned ones of the Torah), that the Torah has authority over a man as long as he is alive,

7:2 As a woman who is bound by the Torah to her husband, as long as he is alive. But if her husband dies, she is freed by the Torah from her husband.

7:3 And if, while her husband is alive, she has intercourse with another man, she becomes an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is freed by the Torah, and she is not an adulteress if she marries another

 

Paul takes an illustration from Jewish Law.  A woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive.  She cannot marry another as long as he lives (unless he divorces her; she has no right to divorce) until her death.

 

           

7:4  And now, my brothers, you also are dead to the Torah in the body of the Messiah that you might be [married] to another who arose from the place of the dead, that you might bear fruit to Eloah.

 

As far as the Torah is concerned we have died with Messiah

and are freed from our former husband (sin) thus allowing

us to be brides to Messiah. 

 

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