The new name for group

The new name for the group should be Outreach to Muslims/camel jockeys

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Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on March 15, 2012 at 5:01pm

the world is full jam packed of idiots and ignorant persons who justify their evil. and this includes almost everyone including the socalled schlars. i will not blindly follow the fools. and i will not blindly follow you either. everyone is equal in capability and i am way beyond the scholars in terms of intelligence and wisdom so it would be an offense to condescend by asking them for their advice on the higher matters.

Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on March 15, 2012 at 5:03pm

I need yours because you are trying to convince me of what you believe, so i need your rationale not theirs

Permalink Reply by 命 on March 17, 2012 at 12:10pm

What was you explanation for all the problems I presented, including the divorce thing?
Please post it again, ANDREW.

In fact, let me repost with elaborated and clarified questions, so you can read it carefully and adress my many points, Andrew.

Section 29.

²²⁹ A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by God. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by God, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by God; so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by God, such persons wrong (themselves as well as others).

²³⁰ So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), he cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by God. Such are the limits ordained by God, which He makes plain to those who understand.

²³¹ When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; he wrongs his own soul. Do not treat God's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse God's favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear God, and know that God is well acquainted with all things.

Section 30.

²³² When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands, if they mutually agree on equitable terms. This instruction is for all amongst you, who believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is (the course Making for) most virtue and purity amongst you and Allah knows, and ye know not.

Arthur John Arberry (with my own parenthetical insertions)"230. If he (first husband) divorces her finally, she shall not be lawful to him (she shall not be lawful sexually to a man aka: "to him" or "to a he") after that, until she marries another husband (second husband). If he (second husband) divorces her, then it is no fault in them (woman and second husband) to return to each other, if they suppose that they will maintain God's bounds. Those are God's bounds; He makes them clear unto a people that have knowledge."

This DIRECTLY contradicts: deut.24

1When a man has taken a wife, and married her, and it comes to pass that she finds no favor in his eyes, because he has found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and put it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

3And if the latter husband hates her, and writes her a bill of divorcement, and puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house; or if the latter husband dies, who took her to be his wife;

4Her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife

Please tell me "again" how they can be harmonized. It clearly says in the Quran: "she is not lawful for him (to take as a wife) afterward until [after] she marries a husband other than him."

If he divorces her once, she is to remarry him. If he divorces her a second time (and not a third time as the added remarks not in the quran say) then he is to not remarry her as scripture says. if the second husband divorces his wife, the second husband is allowed to remarry her.

"I am not convinced it denies the crucifixion, and it denies He is the Son of God, but not the son of God. I know there aren't capitals but my poin is the Quran acknowledges that there can be sons of God, just not in the sense as Christians claim Him to be."

In my opinion, this is proof of immense ignorance about the Quran, and proof of an actual desire to adopt the sick puppy that is the Quran / the rantings of muhammed's demons.

The Quran has plenty of disharmonies with the Torah, as is plainly evident, just read the first two suras, for Christ's sake how blind can you be.

"And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain". S. 4:157 Pickthall

Seriously, go ahead and explain this in detail for me, "again".

Here are some more conflicts with the Bible:

Explain this:

¹⁸⁹ They ask thee concerning the New Moons.^[179] Say: They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back: It is virtue if ye fear God. Enter houses through the proper doors:^[180] And fear God: That ye may prosper.

This contradicts the Mosaic law, which gives us very contrary rulings on the new moons:

Feast of the New Moon, The

Held first day of the month.
Numbers 10:10 Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the LORD your God.
Celebrated with blowing of trumpets.
Numbers 10:10 Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the LORD your God.

Psalms 81:3-4 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob.
Sacrifices at.
Numbers 28:11-15 And in the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot; And three tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, for one bullock; and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, for one ram; And a several tenth deal of flour mingled with oil for a meat offering unto one lamb; for a burnt offering of a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD. And their drink offerings shall be half an hin of wine unto a bullock, and the third part of an hin unto a ram, and a fourth part of an hin unto a lamb: this is the burnt offering of every month throughout the months of the year. And one kid of the goats for a sin offering unto the LORD shall be offered, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering. ...

http://www.bible-topics.com/Feast-of-the-New-Moon-The.html

Explain this:

¹⁹⁶ And complete the Ḥajj or 'umra^[189] in the service of God. But if ye are prevented (from completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill,^[190] or has an ailment in his scalp, (necessitating shaving), (he should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again),^[191] if any one wishes to continue the 'umra on to the ḥajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the ḥajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts^[192] of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear God, and know that God is strict in punishment.^[193]

Why are none of these divine decrees included in the Mosaic laws?
Do you obey these divine decrees of your blessed prophet Muhammed, Sallaleyhu wasallam ?

Explain this:
²¹⁹ They ask thee concerning wine^[217] and gambling^[218]. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit."

We are told here that by implication, Yeshua should not have been drinking wine, a common attack upon the Messiah levelled by many false religions, especially such as are of demonic origin.

Explain this:

¹⁴⁴ We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens^[124]: now shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque^[125]: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book^[126] know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is God unmindful of what they do.

¹⁴⁵ Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow^[127] each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

¹⁴⁶ The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons^[128]; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.

We are told the people of the Book following their vain desires, refuse to consent to the divine decree to turn toward the Sacred Mosque in Saudi Arabia when praying, and "conceal this truth".

Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on March 17, 2012 at 1:57pm

i'll respond after my sabbaths =)

Permalink Reply by 命 on April 14, 2012 at 1:04pm

ok so go ahead.

Onieu bahn Duid said: