i think you will have the opposite effect of an outreach with that =)
So a joke makes it okay? You should remove it. James doesn't have all day to police every discussion here. so how about take some responsbility and remove it yourself.
as for translations, for all writings, you can say any translation of any book before 1900s is superior than any translation of any book after 1800s.
It wasn't funny.
David Katcher said:
I meant it as a joke
If it is so offensive then maybe someone should remove it
I am from New York
What translations of the Qur'an are good?
i assume you mean arabic? or is there a Quran in aramaic?
i disagree with your analysis of the Quran but i'd be willing to see what the evidence says. Just to me i see the passages that say jews and christians will enter salvation if they do good work, if they worship God, and if they believe in the day of judgment. it also says that we must not kill anyone if they do not exhibit any threat to us. i think we push musliims away from the truth when we falsely malign the quran.
I have read about half the Quran and it all reconciled with the Bible. those verses you are taking out of context; you even added "xtians and jews" at least twice when it doesn't say it in the text. i'm not going to go in and defend it, since i know it won't do any good. you would always have a negative view of the quran, so i'm not going to try something impossible as that would be a waste of time, unless yoou exhibited that you were willing to change your mind with evidence which at this time you have not. and you should know, the bible makes statements about killing specific groups of people. so its okay for Jews to kill specific tribes, but its never okay for people to kill Jews if they deserve to die? what does Torah say? it says for capital crimes, both jew and gentile should be killed by their government in a fair trial. seems like you have an unjustified racism. Jews are indeed preferrable to gentiles, but one righteous gentile old grandmother who is paralyzed, blind, and deaf is infinitely better than a nation of ten million wicked jews. by your standard however, it seems you think jews are always better no matter their actions, and that jews have different moral commandments from God than gentiles have.
If James reads this, and decides he doesn't want me to be here anymore, i would request instead him to send me a message saying not to post anything here anymore, so instead i can stay here and observe from other people's discussions; i would never post a group, discussion post, video, forum, blog, or anything if i'm told to. it would allow me to continue observing the discusion here without adding anything that the network disagrees with. and you know i have always been faithfully obeying the rules since they were clarified for me so you can trust my word.
on that note, here is my response to ben:
Yes, Mary is a Levite, not of tribe of Judah. As to Noah's family, there is the Book of Noah, which perhaps contained this story. Who says Noah had only three chidren? you are assuming. furthermore, the Quran says all three children came off of the ark, so obviously Quran is referring to a fourth son, or there is a bad translation somewhere. all the supposed differences are either due to false christian or jewish doctrine not found in Scripture, or simply additional stories which are corroborated by the scriptures thrown out o the canon by jews and christians. example, satan's refusal to bow down to Adam comes from Scripture, specifically the life of adam and eve.
the Quran does not teach the doctrine of abrogation anymore than the NT does. you are twisting it to justify your uninformed rejection of things. I have read it and studied it much more than you. reading one page with an open mind is superior to reading the whole thing 1 million times with a closed mind. You read it with an agenda looking intentionally to find flaws in it and to make it out to be a false writing. how about be fair and read it with an open mind and say "is this book Scripture?" only when you do that will you be able to know if the Quran is from God or not. otherwise, your rejection of it is not valid.
I am not here to bring people against God or Torah i am here to bring people against you and your horrible religion of orthodox judaism which i find the most despicable of basically all religions, especialy considering they were given so much and yet they have corrupted themselves more than christians and more than muslims. i will say again, orthodox christianity and orthodox islam is much closer to ancient pharisaic judaism than orthodox judaism. orthodox judaism is so horrible as they don't even have any moral standards; all they have is their ridiculously repugnant noahide laws, their grossly repugnant rejection of hell, and their teaching of reincarnation and many other false teachings. its so far from ancient judaism, its not even worth mentioning the name of orthodox judaism except to intentionally bring shame upon oneself in speaking such words.
and i am here to point people towards nazarene judaism, embracing the truth of torah and messiah and how they fit together.
Right off the bat the punishments the Quran prescribes for violations of basic commandments like theft TOTALLY contradict the the punishments prescribed in the Torah.... I can only conclude that either you cannot read, or are incapable of comparing two texts in front of you.
i don't think you realize that many statements of christians are ignorant of the quran, and when muslims see this, they discredit those that can't get the facts straight. i would urge you to read the Quran as if it was Scripture. from there, yu can prove that Islam disobeys the Quran and on all counts have fallen away, whether the Quran is true or bible is. then show that the Quran supports the bible. in that way, they would know a true muslim embraces the bible too.
As to punishments of the Quran, i do not believe it says to cut off their hand any more than Messiah said to cut off your hand. in other words, they both taught cut off the access of their hand. and about flogging adulterers; the hadith record the original Quran as prescribing death penalty for adulterers, so it had to have been changed.
Ben i don't care what muslims teach; i care what the Quran teaches. It is the Quran which allows us to reach out to muslims. without the quran, you cannot help any muslim, because they will cling to their beliefs as if the quran supported them. you have to show from the quran they are wrong, or else they will not listen to you.
Ben, the Quran teaches explicitly that the son of Mary is the messiah and this is acknowledged by orthodox muslims. And yes Allah is the one true God. Its the same as saying Elohim is the one true God. These are just words describing the same being.
the Quran does not teach God abrogates anything. now, are you suggesting that this is a muslim belief, because this is news to me; i have never heard any Muslim who is conservative rather than liberal teach this. i think you are the one who is ignorant of Islam. I have many friends who are Muslim, and they know what Islam teaches. who will i trust more: Quran and actual muslims, or Ben who is so far removed from Muslims, he doesn't even understand that the reason Muslims wrongly reject the Gospel of Barnabas from Scripture is because the Muslims say the Quran teaches son of Mary is Messiah, but Gospel of Barnabas contradicts this.
quotation rom wikipedia page about Gospel of Barnabas (with bolded portions bolded for your very needed benefit, Ben)
According to one version[specify] of the Gospel of Barnabas:
Then said the priest: "How shall the Messiah be called?" [Jesus answered] "Muhammed is his blessed name".—Chapter 97
Jesus confessed, and said the truth: "I am not the Messiah."—42:2
As mentioned above, these pronouncements contradict Islamic belief. Some Muslim scholars argue that the Gospel of Barnabas has been modified, thus inconsistency is observed. Also, some may argue that the word "Messiah" can be a formal title for Jesus Christ, but the meaning "anointed" can be attributed to others, such as King David, anointed to kingship, and his son Solomon. Some Muslim scholars state that this references the Mahdi, an eschatological figure in Islam, who will help defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal (lit "the false messiah", cf. antichrist), according to Islamic tradition contained within the sahih (correct) hadith (records of traditions), which Muslims believe to be authentic and reliable narratives of the sayings and practices of Muhammad.
In the Koran, however, it is clearly stated that the messiah will be named "Isa" (note that Arabic-speaking Christians use the name Yasu, cognate to the Hebrew and Aramaic Yeshua, to refer to Jesus Christ: the character of "Isa" is present solely in Islamic tradition):
(Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Îsa the son of Maryam, daughter of Imran (Eng. Amram - Moses' father)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Îsa, the son of Maryam, held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah." - Surah 3:45, Yusuf Ali translation.
then you must be dealing either with liberal muslims, or you are inadequate and do not understand what it is Muslims are even saying to you. show me a famous muslim teacher which is endorsed by orthodox islam which teaches that the son of Mary is not the Messiah. show the evidence. because right now i think what you say is a load of something.