Is it fair to say the Jews don't believe in Yeshua? or assume that a particular Jew doesn't?
"If only the Jews would believe in Jesus...yada, yada, yada..."
"Oh that rabbi, yea he has interesting ideas, but he doesn't believe in Yeshua."
I would like to post the following excerpt from the late orthodox rabbi Simcha Pearlmutter's video testamony that can be found on youtube.
“May it be your desire, your will before you, that the blowing, the sounding of Tashrat, that we are blowing, will be interwoven, in the fabric, in the curtains of heaven,” if you will, al y’dei ham’munneh, “by the hand of the monitor, by the hand of the one who is in charge, the supervisor,” Tarti’el. That’s the name of one of the angelic supervisors in the heavenly sphere. K’shem, “like the name,” sheqibalta, “which you received,” al y’dei, “by the hand of,” Eliyahu, “Elijah,” zichronam livracha, “of blessed memory.” Notice this very clearly and carefully, vi’Yeshua, “and Yeshua.” Yeshua. Here is the name that I spoke of, the name which you have received, Yeshua. We give him a title, and right after that, the title is called Sar Ha-Panim, “the Prince, the Minister of the Face,” meaning the face of Hashem. In other words, this one called Yeshua, is no less given the title of the very reflection of the insides, the panim, the insides, the face, panim, of G-d. And we utter his name between the first and second soundings of the shofar, called the ram’s horn.
Now let me finish the prayer. V’Sar Metatron, “and also the minister, Metatron.” That, by the way, is sometimes used as another name for the name Yeshua. It means, The Guide of the Way, Metatron. U’timalei aleinu, “and fill us up,” b’rachamim, “with Your mercies.” Barukh atah, “Blessed are you, Ba’al Harachamim, “He who possesses all mercies.”
All right. We have now uttered the name during the time of the sounding of the shofar. But we have one final prayer that we must say, which relates to that prayer I’ve just read to you. And after we have sounded the final set of soundings in this portion of the service, we then refer—we then refer—to the final little prayer and it says this:
Uv’chen, “Accordingly,” y’hi ratzon milfaneicha, “may it be your desire before You.” This stands for the name of G-d, but we won’t say it, we’ll say Hashem, Elokeinu, “our G-d,” v’Eilokei avoteinu, “and G-d of our fathers,” sheya’alu eilu, “that these should ascend, which,” hamalachim, “the messengers should ascend,” hayotz’im min ha-shofar, “that have gone up from the shofar,” umin ha-tekiah, “and from the tekiah (one of the notes we have sounded), umin ha-shevarim, also a note, umin ha-teruah, a note, umin ha-tashrat, umin tashat, umin tarat, the three soundings, the three sets of soundings, lifnei khisei chevodekha, remember the name that we called out that it should go “before Your throne of glory,” vayamlitzu, “and that” these names “should recommend,” (meaning the name of Yeshua), tov, “goodness,” ba’adeinu, “in our behalf,” l’khapeir, “in order to atone,” al kol chatoteinu, in order to atone “for all our sins.”
So the last prayer says that we call upon the name of Yeshua that it may atone for all our sins.
Now I want you to understand very clearly that I did not write this prayer, and I did not publish this book, and I did not write this book. This book was written by Rabbis long ago, and this prayer cannot be taken out of this prayer book, not by me, and not by any other Rabbi. Even if a Rabbi desired to extract it, he could not—not if he is an orthodox and observant Rabbi who goes by rabbinical halachah, because he is bound by what we call the word and the prayers of Chazal. “Chazal” means, Chachameinu zichronam livracha, “Our wise men of blessed memory.” And what Chazal has put in, we are of insufficient authority to remove."
This excerpt (as well as the rest of Simcha's testimony) shows that an unknown number of Jewish people have believed in Yeshua through out the centuries.
Simcha says that this belief in Yeshua is known as "THE SECRET", as in a closely guarded secret by an unknown number of jews.
He also implies that a rejection of the Greco-Roman character of Jesus is not the same as a rejection of the orthodox jewish Yeshua. In other words a jew may very well deny "Jesus" but have a secret belief in "Yeshua".
Since it is not public knowledge which jews believe in Yeshua and which do not, I believe it is an inaccurate statement to say that jews do not believe in Yeshua.
This testamony of Simcha Pearlmutter shows that there has been some significant number of jews who have kept a belief in Yeshua, and that belief went hand in hand with the kabbalah.
Is it fair to say the Jews don't believe in Yeshua? or assume that a particular Jew doesn't?
Why would we make assumptions like this?
One possible reason is to maintain some sense of superiority. By assuming that the jews don't believe in Yeshua we can continue to believe that our idea of the right way to do things (halachah) is better then the Jewish way because "they don't even believe in Yeshua."
What a shock it would be if we found out that a large number of orthodox jews are direct student decendants of Yeshua hamashiach with all of his correct halachah?
What if we had to submit to a rabbinic authority that has descended from Yeshua instead of creating our own authority based on a limited education on jewish culture and texts?
If Simcha's testamony is true than these questions should be considered.
Food for thought.
Tags: pearlmutter, simcha
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by James E. Auel on -
I don't doubt that most Jews are saved. Remember what Joel 2:32 says "Call upon the name of YHVH and you will be saved..." They say the four letter in the prayers, but they just don't pronounce it. The same thing, not to mention that most Jews believe in Messiah, But as you mentioned they don't acknowledge the Grecian-Roman "Jesus" as Messiah.
Jesus never exsisted, Yeshua Messiah did.
Don't forget what Isaiah 8:20 says both the Word and the Testimony. Remember that Yeshua is both one in the same (Torah and Messiah the same thing)(John 1:1). If you acknowledge the form of each or both Salvation is within your grasp.
Yah's Blessings and Shalom!!! -
-
Permalink Reply by Mike Clark on
-
I would not want to judge anyone in whether they are saved or not. I feel if a person is truly seeking G-d, He will lead them to the Truth. I know some great Chabad rabbi's here in Atlanta, they do not know Yeshua, but love G-d, and His Torah, who could blame them for not following Yeshua, look at he blood that had been shed in His name, followers of Jesus feeling Torah has been done away with. Plus, every time in history they let there guard down, they get killed.
I feel many of the Chassidic do see Yeshua as a Messiah, but as you said, they must not say anything, or they will be kicked out of the camp.
Mika'el -
-
Permalink Reply by Charlayne Crawford on -
the same rabbi publically recanted due to the stir it caused. what i will say though, is that many christians and scads of messianics are becoming orthodox. this may seem problematic to many, however, i believe the Most High allows this so that when the two witnesses come back, those who are converts to Judaism can lead the new messianic converts to NT teachings.
G-d knows what He is doing and why He allows things to happen. i see beauty in it all. i have two rabbis locally a reform and a conservative that i chat with a lot, i believe that they believe in Yeshua as messiah, yet will not be public about it. i have orthodox friends who i know believe as well, but just dont publically mention it. the prophecies in Isaiah and Daniel - Daniel especially are incredibly persuasive. the loss of community to run to messi antics is the turn off. too much devisive crap in MJ.
i have recently run into some jewish hip-hop music on youtube and watched the videos. i see orthodox people rapping about how much they love G-d and the 613 and Maimonides 13 principles. i have trouble believing that G-d will not try to save them- they love him so much. then there is matisyahu. chassidic reggae musician who sings of how he waits for messiah. it is our job to be loving and share with them.
it is kind of a jewish creed to never knock a fellow jew around. thats how three jews (rabbis at that) can come up with 19 different opinions on a topic. they bounce a few things around and no-one slams his thought process as it is growth. now if only MJ could grasp that concept and stop fighting amongst themselves. i see that a lot on a few groups and it is heartbreaking to see ha satan reign within them. -
-
Permalink Reply by 命 on -
Most self-identified Jews would say they don't believe in Yeshua.
Yet, they are covered by the Covenant, and will live in the kingdom, and eventually submit to the King, and then live forever. -
-
Permalink Reply by Yacov Shlomo on -
Every week in the Synagogue, the siddur has Yeshua's name written in it. We recite his name every week. It does not matter if a Jew is in a Rabbinic or MJ Synagogue. The prayers are nearly identical.
Also, if a Jew is obedient to the New Covenant at Mo'Av, they have the Ruach Adonai living within them. I do not see much difference between the New Covenant at Mo'Av and the Covenant that Yimeyahu speaks about. The only major differences are the WHO is our mediator - Yeshua vs Moshe, and the 1050 New Commandments in the Ketuvim Netsarim. And the B'Rit Hadasha will not be in full force until Moshiach ben David Comes riding on a cloud kicking the Lawless Buts since He has already taken names and written them in the Book of Life.
It is written that ALL Israel will be saved. Whether or not that means "All Israel will be Saved that are living at the time of Moshiach ben David Comes" or ALL Israel will be saved period that were living a righteous life according to the Covenant at Mo'Av. Either way, ALL Israel will be saved.
-
-
Permalink Reply by 命 on
-
I believe everyone will be saved, God will not suffer to lose a vessel, created for glorifying him, to permanent perdition. Granted. We were created to glorify him forever, which can only come true if he saves us and lets us live forever. Granted. And this means all Israel will be saved, eventually.
But that future glorification does not reflect on the current beliefs we hold. A Jew, Buddhist or Muslim could say "Yeshua, Yeshua" all day long and still not be a believer, unless he is conscious of that Yeshua is the Meshiach.
"Every week in the Synagogue, the siddur has Yeshua's name written in it. We recite his name every week."
So what? He's not seen as the Messiah, and the name is pronounced in relation to unrelated matters.
Scandinavians say "yah" every day (that's how they pronounce the word for "yes"), but that doesn't make them worshipers of Yah. -
-
Permalink Reply by James Trimm on
-
SO will He force salvation on those who reject it? Will he force souls to live forever according to a Torah which they detest?
-
-
Permalink Reply by 命 on
-
They will learn to love it. Our teacher will teach them. Resistance to the God of love is futile, for his grace is irresistible.
Everyone would love him and obey him if he but opened their eyes, and eventually, all eyes will be opened.
Its just like saying "all people with Down's Syndrome could do higher math if healed of their Down's Syndrome."
for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth; 5 for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who did give himself a ransom for all (1 Tim. 2, YLT)
The gates of the grave are broken up, and no man can remain therein. The penalty of death has been paid. Atonement is universal. God demands the salvation of all, in good time, and the obedience of all creation to Torah.
This includes Israel:
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (Ro 11:26)
James Trimm said:
SO will He force salvation on those who reject it? Will he force souls to live forever according to a Torah which they detest? -
-
Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on
-
"We were created to glorify him forever, which can only come true if he saves us and lets us live forever"
I agree that we were created to glorify Him forever, but i'm wondering what your justification is for the idea that only if are saved we can glorify HIm forever? I believe in a little concept i like to call "the meaning of life in hell". I argue that because there is a meaning of life, every life must have a good purpose, or else it is immoral. I believe that in hell, you cannot become saved. However, you can stop getting worse. And how do you do that? By obeying righteousness forever.
-
-
Permalink Reply by 命 on
-
"I agree that we were created to glorify Him forever, but i'm wondering what your justification is for the idea that only if are saved we can glorify HIm forever?"
Good question. In my honest opinion and interpretation, God considers himself most glorified when praised and hallowed by the saved/saints. Only the saved can live forever, for they are the only ones to have immortal bodies. In order to praise him forever, we must live forever, meaning we must have undying, sanctified bodies.
According to the book of Revelation, death will be cast into the lake of fire, so "annihilationism" is disproven right there.
You are very insightful to recognize that there is no such thing as "eternal death". Eternal hell actually makes more sense, but it is still not true. Hell is temporal, lasting until the last creation is saved (possibly Satan.)
The Lord has purposed to elicit praise by every mouth, and he shall not fail.
To say he has purposed to be glorified by his creation forever, and then say he will fail at this, implies he cannot reach his own goal, a position which I consider fraught with problems. I don't think this is what you're saying, as you claim he can be glorified by all creation, even those in hell: I would probably have to clarify that God wants to be "maximally" glorified, which is achieved only by saving all creation. The prayers and praise of the saints are greater than the prayers and praise of the wicked (I think you would agree.)
Through fire, through Hell, through any means of purification and disciplining, he will not fail to change their hearts; through teaching, through instruction, through mercy and abounding compassion, and any means of refinement and perfecting, he will indeed change their hearts; and every soul shall praise him, and acknowledge his mercy and abounding compassion.
The Lord shall cause every knee to bend before him, and before his son, as he has purposed from before the foundations of the earth were laid.
The Lord desires that every soul should come to salvation, and that every man should take his place in the household of God, and also in the kingdom of God; for the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. And those that are called, shall call their brothers, and those that are glorified, shall glorify God.
And in the kingdom of God there shall be a great rejoicing, there will be an overflow of knowledge and wisdom, and the resurrected saints and prophets of old will walk through the streets of Jerusalem. And nations afar off will hear of it and be afraid.
Anayahu ven Dawid said:
"We were created to glorify him forever, which can only come true if he saves us and lets us live forever"
I agree that we were created to glorify Him forever, but i'm wondering what your justification is for the idea that only if are saved we can glorify HIm forever? I believe in a little concept i like to call "the meaning of life in hell". I argue that because there is a meaning of life, every life must have a good purpose, or else it is immoral. I believe that in hell, you cannot become saved. However, you can stop getting worse. And how do you do that? By obeying righteousness forever.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on
-
Why do you say "possibly Satan"? What makes you unsure about him?
-
-
Permalink Reply by Yacov Shlomo on
-
What do you think Christian:
If a Master had two servants, He commanded both to do ALL He has Commanded. Servant one states that he will do all that His Master has commanded him. Servant two told His Master that he would not do ALL that HE commanded him to do. The Master decides to go away for awhile, but promised that He would return.
Some time later both servants had a change of heart:
Servant one changed his mind and decided to do what he wanted to do instead of doing what His Master Instructed Him. Servant two, repented and did ALL that is Master Commanded him to do.
When the Master returns, which servant was the righteous servant? I say that servant two is the righteous servant. The reason for this is that he is doing what His Master Commanded him to do. This is the Rabbinic Jew that is doing what Hashem has commanded him to do at Mo'Av. The Rabbinic Jew that is having a relationship with Hashem because the New Covenant at Mo'Av requires a Jew to have the Ruach Emet living within him or her.
In my opinion, servant one are those that call themselves Evangelical Christians. The Evangelical Christians today states to The Master that they will do ALL that He has commanded them to do, but as soon as The Master has left...the mice will play by their own rules, not by The Master's Rules. They will even teach AGAINST the Torah since "their Jesus has done away with the law."
The righteous goys are the ones that do not speak ill about the Torah, but lift up the Torah. They live a Torah Observant Life. By religious beliefs, they are called Messianic Gentiles.
Christian said:I believe everyone will be saved, God will not suffer to lose a vessel, created for glorifying him, to permanent perdition. Granted. We were created to glorify him forever, which can only come true if he saves us and lets us live forever. Granted. And this means all Israel will be saved, eventually.
But that future glorification does not reflect on the current beliefs we hold. A Jew, Buddhist or Muslim could say "Yeshua, Yeshua" all day long and still not be a believer, unless he is conscious of that Yeshua is the Meshiach.
"Every week in the Synagogue, the siddur has Yeshua's name written in it. We recite his name every week."
So what? He's not seen as the Messiah, and the name is pronounced in relation to unrelated matters.
Scandinavians say "yah" every day (that's how they pronounce the word for "yes"), but that doesn't make them worshipers of Yah. -
© 2013 Created by James Trimm.
