Nazarene Space

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Is There A Genuine Book of Jasher?

Many Christians have thrilled to the marvelous stories found in the Book of Jasher. Others have read the Book of Jasher and were somewhat less enthusiastic, finding it to be somewhat dull. Upon further investigation, this writer discovered that those pronouncing it “dull” were reading from a different version than the one this writer had read. There are, in fact, two very different versions of the Book of Jasher currently in existence.

The “dull” version is titled: The Book of Jasher: with Testimonies and Notes, Critical and Historical, Explanatory of the Text, to which is Prefixed, Various Readings, and a Preliminary Dissertation, Proving the Authenticity of the Work. Additional title information states: “Translated into English from the Hebrew, by Flaccus Albinus Alcuinus, of Britain, Abbot of Canterbury, who went a Pilgrimage into the Holy Land, where he discovered this volume, in the city of Gazna.” It was published in Bristol, England in 1829.

The other version of the Book of Jasher (the only one which this writer was familiar with for several decades until about a year ago) was published in New York in 1840 by Messrs. M. M. Noah & A. S. Gould. (For clarity’s sake, for the remainder of this monograph we shall refer to the two versions of Jasher by their respective publication dates.) By directing the reader to the Book of Jasher in two separate places (discussed later), the Bible (a) tells us there is or at least was a Book of Jasher and (b) indirectly lends some aura of credibility to it. The critical question for us to have answered is: Is either of the two extant versions the actual Book of Jasher referred to in the Scriptures?

The two references to it are found in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18:

Joshua 10: 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

The testing method

How can we know if either extant version is genuine? Frankly, this writer knows of no method by which to determine with absolute certainty whether either is genuine. It would seem that the best we can do is to disqualify, if possible, one or both versions. Then, if one of the versions cannot be disqualified with the means at hand, that still does not prove it is the genuine Book of Jasher referred to in these two verses; it merely means it is possible for it to be the genuine Jasher.

We have two methods whereby we can test the versions for authenticity: (1) Does it conflict with the canon of Scripture? If so, we can say with certainty the conflicting version of Jasher is a fraud and a fake. (2) What is the history of the version of Jasher under consideration? This is fraught with much uncertainty, since we are left with merely the several prefatory and introductory writings in the two versions, along with the very sparse material offered by standard reference works.

While both books of Jasher cover roughly the same time period in their narratives (from Adam to about the end of the Book of Joshua), the 1840 Jasher is a much fuller account. It comprises 111 chapters spread over 267 pages in this writer’s older copy. Our newer copy has the 11 chapters in 254 pages. This is the printing by Artisan Publishers which we presently carry on our literature list.1 The 1829 Jasher, by contrast, is of somewhat smaller page size and has only 37 chapters spread over 63 pages. Obviously then, the references given for chapter and verse in one version of Jasher will not apply to the other Jasher.

The 1829 Jasher

We shall examine the two versions of Jasher by treating each individually and in order of publication. Concerning Jasher-1829 (the alleged “Alcuin” version), we find it replete with outright contradictions to the Bible. We found the following and offer them as examples:

(1) Instead of spending 40 days on Mt. Sinai receiving instruction from Yahweh-God, as the Bible states; according to Jasher-1829 (chapter 17), Moses and Joshua and Nadab and Abihu and 70 elders spent 40 days on the mount receiving instruction from Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law. Furthermore, this Jasher claims that Jethro was the son of Esau, Israel’s enemy for the ages. The Bible, on the other hand, states that Jethro was the priest of Midian. Midian was one of the six sons of Abraham through Keturah, whom he took to wife after the death of Sarah.

(2) According to Jasher-1829, it is Jethro who instructs Moses how to build the tabernacle and Jethro who tells Moses to build an ark. Jethro also tells Moses to choose a priesthood family. Moses chooses Aaron and his sons, and it is Jethro who tells Moses to clothe them with holy garments. (Jasher 17:8-13). The Bible says God instructed Moses in all these things.

(3) When the 40 days are over, Moses conspires with Joshua and the others and suggests that when they go down off Mt. Sinai to the people, that they had better tell them that they had been meeting with the Lord, when in reality it was only Jethro. There is no mention anywhere of meeting with Yahweh on Mt. Sinai. (1829-Jasher 17:21-22)

(4) The Bible says that Aaron’s sons, Nadab and Abihu, were killed by fire from Yahweh for offering “strange fire” on the altar and this was long after the golden calf rebellion. Jasher-1829 says the pair were slain by the sword of the Levites at the command of Moses as part of the 3,000 killed for their part in the golden calf rebellion (although the golden calf is not mentioned in Jasher). (1829-Jasher 18:5, 6)

(5) In the matter of the rebellion of Korah, Dathan and Abiram, the Bible tells us that the Lord caused the earth to open up and swallow up them and about 250 fellow rebels in a fiery abyss. This 1829-Jasher, in contrast, asserts that Moses instructed the Levites to execute the rebels “with fire.” (Jasher 21: 12.)

(6) Bible scholars debate on whether or not Rahab of Jericho was a prostitute or not. This Jasher raises her status even beyond that of ordinary subject of the king. It states she was a “princess” who was born of an Israelite father and a Midianite mother. This account has the enraged king of Jericho merely calling her a whore in a fit of anger for her having tried to persuade him to surrender to Joshua. (1829-Jasher 27:8, 10, 20.)

Reflecting further, one wonders how Rahab could be a princess, since her alleged Israelite father could not have been a king (Saul was Israel’s first king) and no mention is made of her mother being a queen of Midian. And if she were princess of Midian, what was she doing living in Jericho?

(7) The crossing of the Jordan in 1829-Jasher, chapter 28, affords several more examples of blatant contradictions to the Scripture. Jasher avers that the children of Israel were 50 cubits behind the ark, instead of 2,000 as Scripture records. Also, Scripture states that the priests had to stand in the middle of Jordan bearing the ark as the people crossed over. Jasher says it took six days to cross over... a rather ridiculous statement in view of the width of the Jordan as compared to the presumably much wider Red Sea which they crossed over in one night. And pity those poor Levite priests who had to hold up the (very heavy) ark of the covenant for six full days.

(8) Moreover, the Bible asserts plainly that the waters of Jordan receded and the people went over on dry ground. Jasher says they went across Jordan on wood which floated on the face of the waters! (Jasher 28:10) You figure that one out. ... Oh, I get it. This is where the Israelites invented surfboards! Verse 5 of this chapter claims that 16-year-old males were armed. However, all throughout Scripture, only those males 20 years old and upward were numbered in the armies of Israel.

(9) Concerning the siege and storming of Jericho, the Bible says the city was “straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in.” This implies that most if not all the inhabitants remained within the walls and were subsequently slaughtered by Joshua and company. Jasher 28:18 states that “the people of Jericho fled from the city; every one to the mountains.”

(10) Finally, according to this 1829-Jasher (chapter 32), it was long after – years after the entry in Canaanland – after the conquest, after the division of the land among the Israelite families, after the establishment of the 48 Levitical cities; it was allegedly after all this that old Joshua gets around to having all the males circumcised. The Scripture, however, clearly states that all the males of Israel were circumcized almost immediately after the crossing of Jordan (Joshua 5) and before the attack on Jericho.

Verdict on the 1829 Book of Jasher

We could on with other examples, but this is certainly sufficient to label the 1829-Jasher as a fraud and a fake. That was an easy one, and we have found no one (save the forger) who claims it is authentic. For example, The Popular and Critical Bible Encyclopedia offers this history and denunciation of it.

“In the year 1751 there was published in London, by a type-founder of Bristol named Jacob Ilive, a book entitled ‘The Book of Jasher, with Testimonies and Notes Explanatory of the Text: to which is prefixed various readings: translated into English from the Hebrews by Alcuin of Britain, who went a pilgrimage [sic] into the Holy Land.’

“This book was noticed in the Monthly Review for December, 1751, which describes it as a palpable piece of contrivance, intended to impose upon the credulous and ignorant, to sap the credit of the books of Moses, and the blacken the character of Moses himself. The reviewer adds that ‘the book of Jasher appears to have been constructed in part from the apocryphal writings of the Rabbins; in part from a cento[2] of various scraps stolen from the Pentateuch; and in the remainder from the crazy imaginings of the author’ (Ilive).

“Prefixed to this work is a narrative professing to be from the pen of Alcuin himself, giving a detailed account of his discovery of the Hebrew book of Jasher, in the city of Gazna in Persia, during a pilgrimage which he made from Bristol to the holy land, and of his translation of the same into English. This clumsy forgery into modern English, which appeared with the chapters of the 13th century, and the numerical versicular divisions of the 16th, having been exposed at the time of its appearance, and sunk into well-merited oblivion, was again revised in 1827, when it was reprinted at Bristol and published in London as a new discovery of the book of Jasher. [Note: Here he refers to the same edition which we now call the “1829-Jasher.” –JWB]

“A prospectus of a second edition of this reprint was issued in 1833 by the editor, who herein styles himself the Rev. C. R. Bond. Both Ilive’s and Bond’s edition contain the following pretended testimony to the value of the work from the celebrated Wyckliffe: ‘I have read the book of Jasher twice over, and I much approve of it, as a piece of great antiquity and curiosity, but I cannot assent that it should be made a part of the canon of scripture.’ ”3

Flaccus Albinus Alcuinus (Alcuin) (730?-804 A.D.) was a notable scholar who was born in England, but spent most of his adult life on the Continent. He became a prominent adviser to the Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne whom he had known since 781. None of Alcuin’s biographical information known to us ever so much as hints at any trip to Persia or of any acquaintance with the Book of Jasher. Recalling last month’s FMS, does this not remind us of the anonymous intertestamental period authors who put the names of Adam and Eve, Enoch, the Twelve Patriarchs, etc. in the titles of their pieces of fiction?

Another reference work relates the following about 1829-Jasher:

“In 1750 Thomas Ilive of London issued an English translation of the work, claiming that it was the book of Jasher mentioned in the Bible. The same claim was raised in 1828 by the London Courier and a Jew of Liverpool named Samuel, as a result of which Leopold Zunz issued a statement as to the true nature of the book.”4

The 1911 Encyclopedia Brittannica is no less lenient in its treatment of this fake: “A work called The Book of... Jasher, translated... by Alcuin (1751; second edition., Bristol, 1829), has nothing to do with this or with any Hebrew original, but is a mere fabrication by the printer, Jacob Ilive, who put it forward as the book “mentioned in holy scripture.”5

And Smith’s Bible Dictionary (Holman edition, no date) in its entry concerning the Book of Jasher simply says: “There is an English forgery of 1751 (Bristol, 1829).”

With all of the above evidence from the book itself and from the history of its origin, we can only hope to hasten its second retreat into “well-merited oblivion.” Next month we will examine the 1840 Book of Jasher with equal scrutiny.



Endnotes

1. Ask for B-127, The Book of Jasher, $10 + $2 s & h.

2. A “cento” is a literary work made up from pieces of other works.

3. The Popular and Critical Bible Encyclopedia, volume 2, p. 905, Chicago, 1910

4. The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, volume 6, pp. 41-42, New York, 1942. Even here, notice the seeming contradiction in the historical detail. The previously quoted excerpt gave the name of the perpetrator of the fraud as “Jacob Ilive,” whereas this source gives a “Thomas Ilive.” It is possible, of course, that both are correct if his name were Jacob Thomas Ilive.

5. Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 15, p. 277, 1911 Scholars’ Edition

http://web.archive.org/web/20030206034637/stonekingdom.org/FMS/FMS2...

Is There a Genuine Book of Jasher? Part 2

In last month’s issue of Feed My Sheep and we examined critically the 1829 version of the Book of Jasher. We concluded from a wealth of evidence, both historical and internal textual evidence, and especially by comparing it to the Bible, that it was a fraud and a fake. In this issue we will apply the same criteria of criticism to the 1840 version of the Book of Jasher.

Editor’s Note: I need to brush up on reading Roman numerals. I mistakenly stated in last month’s FMS that the 1840 Jasher has 111 chapters. But the last chapter is numbered “XCI,” which is 91, not 111. Ooops!

Before we focus on Jasher-1840, it should also be noted that over the centuries, a number of rabbinical compositions have appropriated the name of Jasher for their works. Jasher is, in fact, not the name of an individual—as the fraudulent 1829 Jasher would have us believe—but “Jasher” (alt. spelling: “Jashar;” Hebrew: yasher) simply means “righteous” or “upright.” Hence, there exists Sefer Hayasher – The Book of the Righteous, which is an ethical treatise, not an historical narrative at all. Likely composed in the 13th century, it was translated into English and edited by Seymour J. Cohen. [FOOTNOTE: www.jasher.com/Realjash]

Its introduction mentions several other books of Jasher from the 12th, 13th and 14th centuries, and one from some time in the 3rd to 6th centuries. None of these claim to be the authentic Book of Jasher. Only two books claim to be the authentic Book of Jasher referred to in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18—the 1829 Jasher and the 1840 Jasher.

The 1840 Jasher was published by Messrs. M. M. Noah and A. S. Gould in New York. It is the first English translation of this text of the Book of Jasher. (As noted in last month’s FMS, the 1829 and 1840 versions bear little resemblance to each other.) We have in our possession three “printings” of the 1840 English version: two hardcopy and one digital version. A comparison of random passages among these three editions, shows them all to be identical in the text of the book itself, including chapter divisions and versification.

The only differences are the following: Long before my good friend, Bible archeologist, E. Raymond Capt and his Artisan Publishers, came out with their printing of the Book of Jasher in 1988, [FOOTNOTE; This is the edition we make available to our readers; see literature list. Artisan Publishers is now a subsidiary of Hoffman Printing of Muskogee, OK, who were the printers of my 1987 book TV,VCRs...] we had long had in our possession an old, large, paperback edition of the 1840 Jasher. This particular printing gave no publishing information, not even a date of printing. However, it did contain a preface by Mr. Noah, a translator’s preface, a translation of the Hebrew preface, the printer's preface, and certificates by four scholars attesting to the reliability of the translation from the Hebrew into English. It did not contain a table of contents.

Both the digital version and the Artisan Publishers edition omit Mr. Noah’s preface, the translation of the Hebrew preface and the printer's preface. However, both contain an extensive table of contents containing a synopsis of events for each chapter, which is a very helpful feature when trying to search the book of Jasher for a specific incident. The electronic edition of the Book of Jasher declares itself to be “A Reprint of PHOTO LITHOGRAPHIC REPRINT OF EXACT EDITION PUBLISHED BY J.H. PARRY & COMPANY SALT LAKE CITY: 1887.” We would suspect that the original hardcopy (book) edition published by J. H. Parry & Co. in Salt Lake City in 1887 was published by the Mormons.

In our critical analysis of Jasher-1829 we enumerated ten specific examples of outright, palpable and important contradictions to the story as told in the Bible. We could have produced more. In applying the same critical method to Jasher-1840, we are hard pressed to find such contradictions. In fact, the only one which we have discovered is that according to Jasher-1840, the age of Methuselah at his death was 960; whereas according to Genesis 5:27, he was 969. Many other ages are given for patriarchs in Jasher-1840 and to the best of our knowledge all are consistent with Genesis.

This single error is possibly a scribal error, or more likely due to the great difficulty experienced by the printer in 1613 as he converted the text from a handwritten Hebrew manuscript to a printing press Hebrew edition. The Printer’s Preface declares his text of Jasher was “transcribed from a very old manuscript, the letters of which were defaced...”

We also uncovered an internal inconsistency in Jasher-1840. However, it does not necessarily contradict the Bible. To set the stage, Abram’s father, Terah, was a trusted and chief adviser to King Nimrod of Babel (Babylon). A sign in the stars caused Nimrod to seek to kill the infant Abram, an obvious foreshadowing of Herod attempting to kill the infant Jesus two millennia later. For his protection and training, Abram was sent off to live with Noah and Shem.

At age 50, Abram returns to his father’s house and immediately destroys the idols, drawing the wrath of Nimrod as Nimrod learns Abram’s identity. In another foreshadowing (this, of the incident in the Book of Daniel), Abram is cast alive into a fiery furnace. After three days, he is alive and well and moving about in the fire. Nimrod, awestruck, allows Abram to come out of the fire, whereupon he lavishes Abram with gold, silver and other wealth and allows 300 men along with some of his own servants to follow Abram out of the country. Nimrod’s chief servant, Eliezer, was given to Abram as a special gift.

Then we read in Jasher 12:45: “And at the expiration of two years from Abram’s going out of the fire, that is in the fifty-second year of his life, behold king Nimrod sat in Babel upon the throne, and the king fell asleep and dreamed that he was standing with his troops and hosts in a valley opposite the king’s furnace.” ...

The story continues in Jasher 13:1: “And Terah took his son Abram and his grandson Lot, the son of Haran, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, the wife of his son Abram, and all the souls of his household and went with them from Ur Casdim to go to the land of Canaan. And when they came as far as the land of Haran they remained there, for it was exceedingly good land for pasture, and of sufficient extent for those who accompanied them.”

After spending three years in Haran, the Lord appears to Abram and tells him to pack up and move to the land of Canaan. Therefore, Abram should be about 55 yrears old at this time of leaving Haran. But we read in Jasher 13:5: “... and Abram was fifty years old when he went from Haran.”

Clearly, there is a contradiction within Jasher-1840 itself. Some readers will be alert to point out, however, that this does indeed appear to contradict the Bible. Consider the Genesis record:

Genesis 12: 4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

But the mystery is dispelled as we read on in Jasher. After living 15 years in Canaan, Abram and his retinue return to Haran to visit his parents and kindred. He remains there for five years teaching all of them the ways of Yahweh. Then, the Book of Jasher informs us, he departs Haran a second time to go to the land of Canaan.

Jasher 13:26: “And Abram went and returned to the land of Canaan, according to the word of the Lord. And Lot the son of his brother Haran went with him, and Abram was seventy-five years old when he went forth from Haran to return to the land of Canaan.”

Thus, it does not contradict the Bible after all, but is a perfect example of how the Book of Jasher amplifies and expands the story of the Bible. Jasher-1840 is as thrilling to read as Jasher-1829 is dull. The narrative of Noah’s confrontation with hundreds of thousands of soon-to-be-drowned contemporaries is riveting. Jasher also recounts (chapter 14) how a sage from Shinar named Rikayon came to be the first Pharoah and how his name came to be the title of the Eyptian rulers for centuries after him.

Immediately following the chapter detailing the story of Sarai, Hagar and the birth of Ishmael, Jasher launches into some early European history, specifically, of what later came to be known as Italy. Jasher relates (chapter 17) the incident of the rape of the Sabine women. In this chapter we find the people and place names (with slightly different spellings) unmistakably identify ancient Italy by the following: the Tiber river, the Etruscans, Tuscans, Tuscany, the Sabines. Elsewhere (Jasher 10:16), the children of Chittim (Kittim) are identified as “the Romim” But we were all taught that ancient Rome began about the 8th century B.C. with Romulus and Remus. Surely, this discrepancy with secular history is irreconcilable, is it not?

Mr. M. M. Noah sheds some interesting light on this matter in his Preface (emphasis ours):

“There are, nevertheless, some events which are recorded in Jasher, which may create surprise, particularly a detail of the rape of the Sabines, which, at the first glance, I was disposed to consider as an interpolation; but a little reflection satisfied me that it was an event placed in proper chronological order. Pizron, in his Revolution of Empires, or Antiquities of Nations, says, (page 164,) ‘It is therefore likely from what I have said, that several of the Titans, in the reign of Uranus, or, at least, in that of Saturn, staying and fixing themselves in that part of Italy which is adjacent to the Tiber and the Appenines, were afterward called Umbrians. If such were the case, as it seems it was, the settlement of the Titans in Italy was made about the time of the calling of Abraham, that is, when he left Chaldea, to go and dwell in the land of Canaan.’ Page 175, ‘Now, if all this came to pass, it must have happened about the time to Deucalion reigned in Greece, or some years after the deluge that happened under that prince.’ If as Pizron says, the separation of the Sabines from the Umbrians took place 1500 years before Christ, it will not be far distant from the time at which Jasher places the rape of the Sabine women, in the 91st year of the life of Abraham.”

The mention of the Titans, Uranus and Saturn brings up another point. We have long suspected that the ancient Greek, Egyptian and Chaldean mythologies had some basis in fact. Now here we find the historian Pizron speaking matter-of-factly of these “gods” as actual historical personages. Even the monsters of Greek mythology (satyrs, centaurs; i.e., half-human and half-goat or half-horse creatures) could have resulted from genetic manipulation by the ancients.

Jesus told us in Luke 17 that conditions on the earth at the time of His second coming would be as it was in the days of Noah and Lot. Many Christians recognize the pervasive, open and blatant practice of homosexuality as one of those signs marking His soon return. Widespread adultery is seen as another sign. But there is another sign of the times which we would not recognize as linking the days of Noah to our day were it not for the Book of Jasher. It is the great “progress” made in the science of cloning and genetic manipulation.

A sheep and a cow have been cloned. Pig genes and mice genes are being introduced into grain and vegetable products. Of these “achievements” we have been informed by the media. We wonder how much greater “progress” has been achieved but about which we are not told. I suspect much.

Jasher 4:18 describes how the sons of men “taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other...” Does this not tells us that they were creating genetic hybrids, possibly the satyrs, centaurs, minotaurs, etc?

While the 1840 Book of Jasher is an exciting and gripping account of events from Adam through Joshua, is it the authentic version referenced in the Bible? From the translation of the Hebrew Preface we learn that this text of Jasher was found by a Roman officer serving under Titus in the siege of Jerusalem of 70 A.D. The Sidrus, the Roman officer, broke through a wall in a large house and discovered a very old Jewish man hidden in a secret room reading amidst his treasure of scrolls of the Law, the Prophets and the Writings (collectively, our Old Testament), with Jasher among them. The two became friends, and after a time, finally settled in Seville, Spain, where the manuscript remained until it ultimately came into the possession of the Jew who fled Spain and ultimately printed it in Venice in 1613.

We feel certain in saying the 1829-Jasher is a fraud. We cannot say the same about the 1840-Jasher. We would agree with Mr. Noah’s closing remarks in his Preface: “Without giving it to the world as a work of Divine inspiration, or assuming the responsibility to say that it was not an inspired work, I have no hesitation in pronouncing it a work of great antiquity and interest, and a work that is entitled, even regarding it as a literary curiosity, to a great circulation among those who take pleasure in studying the Scriptures.”

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Replies to This Discussion

Thank you for these articles! I especially liked this part, as it answers many questions for me regarding mythology:
"The mention of the Titans, Uranus and Saturn brings up another point. We have long suspected that the ancient Greek, Egyptian and Chaldean mythologies had some basis in fact. Now here we find the historian Pizron speaking matter-of-factly of these “gods” as actual historical personages. Even the monsters of Greek mythology (satyrs, centaurs; i.e., half-human and half-goat or half-horse creatures) could have resulted from genetic manipulation by the ancients."

Yesterday I was at the Getty Villa looking at their artifacts. It's a wonder that modern "historians" have put stupidity on the ancients. Their sculptures are more lifelike than those done by highly paid artists today. We can't improve on perfection.
Its funny that it seems like it is a giant cover up. I mean really lol. They have dug up skeletons of 9 foot people but suddenly they go missing. It would be interesting if they find a half man half creature skeleton! They probably have and its hidden away somewhere. In the book of Daniel he describes the statue that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream. If you go to the part about the iron and clay toes-
Dan 2:41 “Yet, as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the reign is to be divided. But some of the strength of the iron is to be in it, because you saw the iron mixed with muddy clay.
Dan 2:42 “And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the reign is partly strong and partly brittle.
Dan 2:43 “And as you saw iron mixed with muddy clay, they are mixing themselves with the seed of men, but they are not clinging to each other, even as iron does not mix with clay.

It is clear that someone is mixing there seed (obviously non human) with the seed of men. You can find evidence of two half men half Lion in the scriptures, go check out 2 Samuel:
2Sa 23:20 And BenaiahH1141 the sonH1121 of Jehoiada,H3077 the sonH1121 of a valiantH2428 man,H376 of Kabzeel,H4480 H6909 who had done many acts,H7227 H6467 heH1931 slewH5221 (H853) twoH8147 lion like menH739 of Moab:H4124 heH1931 went downH3381 also and slewH5221 (H853) a lionH738 in the midstH8432 of a pitH8432 H953 in timeH3117 of snow:H7950

Lion like men ,it is the only used 2 times in the whole scriptures. If you look in the Strongs concordance it is Strongs H739 KJV. It’s made up of 2 words. Strongs H738 is the word for lion then you have this word "lion like" made up of Strongs H738 and h410 which is El which can also be used to describe any deity. You can go look this up for yourself. It’s interesting. That some say that the half man half bull in Jasher is not scriptural. They haven't found the evidence of its possibility yet. Once they look up these lion like men they may change their stance
.May you be filled with Shalom and blessed by the treasures hidden in the word.
I hate to spell this out but 1840 Jasher book is a fake too. How can you state that you could not find any mstakes, contradictions when I found two within 5 minutes!! Behold:

FALSE POINT #1:
1:25 And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument....

WHAT!! So you are telling me that by the time Cain slew Abel, they alreay figured out how to smelt iron!!!??? right.

FALSE POINT#2:
2:37 And Mahlallel the son of Cainan lived sixty-five years and he begat Jared; and Jared lived sixty-two years and he begat Enoch.

Gen 5:15 When Mahalalel was sixty-five, he had a son named Jared. < matches
Gen 5:18 When Jared was one hundred sixty-two, he had a son named Enoch. < off by 100 years

I'm sure you are going to tell us that its was a typo of the printer.
Proof of the ancient origin of Jasher:

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/proof-of-the-ancient-o...

Response to many attacks on the book of Jasher:

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/objections-to-jasher-a...

The "iron" objection is a bit silly. There is no telling how much knowledge there was with which Adam left the Garden. Also Able appears to have died shortly before Seth was born, around 130 years after they left the Garden. 130 years is about the time it took man to go from the invention of the lightbulb, to laptops and cell phones... no doubt in 130 years men who were intellectual giants by our standards could figure out how to smelt iron.



Austin said:
I hate to spell this out but 1840 Jasher book is a fake too. How can you state that you could not find any mstakes, contradictions when I found two within 5 minutes!! Behold:

FALSE POINT #1:
1:25 And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument....

WHAT!! So you are telling me that by the time Cain slew Abel, they alreay figured out how to smelt iron!!!??? right.

FALSE POINT#2:
2:37 And Mahlallel the son of Cainan lived sixty-five years and he begat Jared; and Jared lived sixty-two years and he begat Enoch.

Gen 5:15 When Mahalalel was sixty-five, he had a son named Jared. < matches
Gen 5:18 When Jared was one hundred sixty-two, he had a son named Enoch. < off by 100 years

I'm sure you are going to tell us that its was a typo of the printer.
Gen 4:22 was some 400 years after Able's death give or take 100 years. I belv 400 years before today, we thought the earth was flat. 400 before that, sorry, 1400 years before that, there was NO improvements what so ever. Now to say that Able was killed when 130 years old is a bit of a reach. Cain had to be some young brat who was easy to anger.


Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
"WHAT!! So you are telling me that by the time Cain slew Abel, they alreay figured out how to smelt iron!!!??? right."

YES!!! Genesis 4:20-22 "20And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.

21And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

22And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah."

Then you have Chp 12:6 where Abram was thrown into a fire for 3 days/nights. Why would God leave out that miracle from His scripture?

My point being of all this, I could write a book about אִיּוֹב, leaving in all the juicy bits but also adding on a whole bunch of other stuff whcih doesn't contradict anything. Its called rewriting the past. What I'm not going to do is get sucked in. You all already drank the cool-aid and I pity for you.
Circular thinking... if the Book of Jasher is Scripture, then YHWH did not leave it out. Your premise assumes your conclusion if true.

Austin said:
Then you have Chp 12:6 where Abram was thrown into a fire for 3 days/nights. Why would God leave out that miracle from His scripture?

My point being of all this, I could write a book about אִיּוֹב, leaving in all the juicy bits but also adding on a whole bunch of other stuff whcih doesn't contradict anything. Its called rewriting the past. What I'm not going to do is get sucked in. You all already drank the cool-aid and I pity for you.
Austin,

If you argue that the Book of Jasher is a forgery, then who forged it and when? How did it come to contain many ancient readings from the Samaritan Pentateuch, yet re-emerge (prior to 1625) in the Rabbinic Jewish community?

Austin said:
Then you have Chp 12:6 where Abram was thrown into a fire for 3 days/nights. Why would God leave out that miracle from His scripture?
My point being of all this, I could write a book about אִיּוֹב, leaving in all the juicy bits but also adding on a whole bunch of other stuff whcih doesn't contradict anything. Its called rewriting the past. What I'm not going to do is get sucked in. You all already drank the cool-aid and I pity for you.
Even if it were authentic - must all authentic works be canonized Scripture?
I can write something authentic for you right now, that doesn't contradict Scripture:
"2+2=4". Or what if an Apostle wrote "2+2=4" ?

It seems like we've given the Apostles and Prophets the king Midas touch of canonization - are they even allowed to write (or quote) something, without it being canonized?
More than authentic, Scripture appeals to its authority "is it not written in the Book of Jasher?" There is no point in appealing to a lesser authority, so Jasher must have at least equal authority to the Book of Joshua.

Christian said:
Even if it were authentic - must all authentic works be canonized Scripture?
I can write something authentic for you right now, that doesn't contradict Scripture:
"2+2=4". Or what if an Apostle wrote "2+2=4" ?

It seems like we've given the Apostles and Prophets the king Midas touch of canonization - are they even allowed to write (or quote) something, without it being canonized?
Doesn't Paul quote pagan poets? (acts 17:28)
Doesn't Moses quote pagan poets? (numbers 21:27)

None of these are of "equal authority" to the Scriptures.
Additionally, there can be any amount of good reasons for quoting Jasher (it was one of the few books that contained this information, and is thus a reference point worth mentioning) - it can be authentic, without being canonical.

The books of Kings mention lots of texts, even written by Solomon, in a manner indicating non-canonical status; even in regards to prophecies spoken through Shemayah and Achiyah.


James Trimm said:
More than authentic, Scripture appeals to its authority "is it not written in the Book of Jasher?" There is no point in appealing to a lesser authority, so Jasher must have at least equal authority to the Book of Joshua.
Christian said:
Even if it were authentic - must all authentic works be canonized Scripture?
I can write something authentic for you right now, that doesn't contradict Scripture: "2+2=4". Or what if an Apostle wrote "2+2=4" ? It seems like we've given the Apostles and Prophets the king Midas touch of canonization - are they even allowed to write (or quote) something, without it being canonized?
But he does not cite them as an authority.

Joshua basically is writing to Hebrews of the time and saying "If you don't believe me, look in the Book of Jasher" as if Jasher held some special authority. Josephus says it was one of the books laid up in the Temple.

Paul when speaking tpo Gentiles is saying in essence "even your own philosophers say..."

Add to this the very name of the Book of Jasher means "The Upright Book" so Joshua is appealing to "The Upright Book" if you do not believe him...

There is just no comparison of the way Paul is quoting pagan authors and the way Joshua is appealing to Jasher.

Christian said:
Doesn't Paul quote pagan poets? (acts 17:28)
Doesn't Moses quote pagan poets? (numbers 21:27)

None of these are of "equal authority" to the Scriptures.
Additionally, there can be any amount of good reasons for quoting Jasher (it was one of the few books that contained this information, and is thus a reference point worth mentioning) - it can be authentic, without being canonical.

The books of Kings mention lots of texts, even written by Solomon, in a manner indicating non-canonical status, even of prophecies spoken through Shemayah and Achiyah.

James Trimm said:
More than authentic, Scripture appeals to its authority "is it not written in the Book of Jasher?" There is no point in appealing to a lesser authority, so Jasher must have at least equal authority to the Book of Joshua.
Christian said:
Even if it were authentic - must all authentic works be canonized Scripture?
I can write something authentic for you right now, that doesn't contradict Scripture: "2+2=4". Or what if an Apostle wrote "2+2=4" ? It seems like we've given the Apostles and Prophets the king Midas touch of canonization - are they even allowed to write (or quote) something, without it being canonized?

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