Book of Enoch

Comment by J. Jury (אליהוא) on October 17, 2009 at 7:13pm

Would you suggest that the Ethiopic is unreliable? Then there is also the Book of Jubilees, which also recounts a 364 day year, though also in Ethiopic. Your thoughts?

Comment by J. Jury (אליהוא) on December 24, 2009 at 8:25am

Anaiah, I sent it as an attachment to you via e-mail. I am curious to hear your response, good or bad.

Comment by Clifford M Dubery on December 24, 2009 at 8:52am

I have read Marker Barker's book The Older Testament and the first chapter is The Book of Enoch, and I know that King Josiah was responsible for removing the Tree of Life and other sacred things from the Temple in order to establish a Monotheistic Religion. If you want to know more about that, I will let you'all know. or have a comment.

Comment by Clifford M Dubery on December 24, 2009 at 10:47pm

It was a large bronze plate known as the Asherah. Jeramiah and King Josiah were contemporanious and it is not mentioned in 2 Kings, however this link http://www.thinlyveiled.com/barker/josiahsreform.htm may assist in the rational behind the claim.

The Tree of Life was a large bronze plate at the time of Josiah.

Comment by Mikha El on December 25, 2009 at 11:39am

My intent is not to cause thread drift here so I will start with this. If there's obvious error in the article at the link posted, can we continue to think the rest of it is accurate?

I've read about 1/2 of the link and have come away a bit skeptical. The article written by someone apparently within Mormonism (currently neutral on this issue) states this...

Jeremiah would have agreed with that – but it also says that the whole second temple era which followed was the age of wrath. Far from restoring the true religion of Jerusalem, the people who returned from Babylon to rebuild the temple were led by false teachers who had not been chosen by God. Israel had gone astray in ‘the hidden things’, they had lost the truth. They did not observe the true calendar or the correct forms of worship, and they had corrupt priests.

This comment seems a far stretch from what I see in Scripture here:

Ezr 3:8 And in the second month of the second year of their coming to the House of Elohim, to Yerushalayim, Zerubbaḇel son of She’alti’ĕl, and Yĕshua son of Yotsaḏaq, and the rest of their brothers the priests and the Lĕwites, and all those who had come out of the captivity to Yerushalayim, began, and they appointed the Lĕwites from twenty years old and above to oversee the work of the House of יהוה.
Ezr 3:12 And many of the priests and Lĕwites and heads of the fathers’ houses, the old men who had seen the first House, wept with a loud voice when the foundation of this House was laid before their eyes, and many shouted aloud for joy,
Ezr 3:13 and the people could not distinguish the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people, for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the sound was heard far away.


An attempt was made to usurp the true priesthood, however it failed…

Ezr 4:1 And when the adversaries of Yehuḏah and Binyamin heard that the sons of the exile were building the Hĕḵal of יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
Ezr 4:2 they came to Zerubbaḇel and the heads of the fathers’ houses and said to them, “Let us build with you, for we seek your Elohim as you do. And we have slaughtered to Him since the days of Ěsarḥaddon sovereign of Ashshur, who brought us here.”
Ezr 4:3 But Zerubbaḇel and Yĕshua and the rest of the heads of the fathers’ houses of Yisra’ĕl said to them, “It is not for you and for us to build a house for our Elohim, but we alone build to יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl, as Sovereign Koresh the sovereign of Persia has commanded us.”

The completion…

Ezr 6:15 And this House was completed on the third day of the month of Aḏar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Sovereign Dareyawesh.
Ezr 6:16 Then the children of Yisra’ĕl, the priests and the Lĕwites and the rest of the sons of the exile, did the dedication of this House of Elah with joy,
Ezr 6:17 and offered at the dedication of this House of Elah one hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs, and as a sin offering for all Yisra’ĕl twelve male goats, according to the number of the tribes of Yisra’ĕl.
Ezr 6:18 And they appointed the priests to their divisions and the Lĕwites to their divisions, over the service of Elah in Yerushalayim, as it is written in the Book of Mosheh.

Strict observance was mandated…

Ezr 7:26 And whoever does not do the law of your Elah and the law of the sovereign, let judgment be promptly executed on him, whether it be death, or banishment, or confiscation of goods, or imprisonment.

Herein we see their only transgression which was corrected…

Ezr 10:19 And they gave their hand in pledge to put away their wives. And being guilty, they presented a ram of the flock for their guilt.

Comment by James Trimm on July 8, 2010 at 9:00am

Secular scholars say the same thing about Daniel.

Comment by jacob on July 9, 2010 at 11:49pm

Comment by James Trimm on October 17, 2009 at 1:17pm The problem with the Astronomical section of the Book of Enoch is that we have no reliable copy of it. The Aramaic fragmanets found at Qumran have little agreement with the Ethiopic and Greek texts, yet not enough of the Aramaic survives to even think about a reconstruction. Basing anything solid on what the Astronomical section says is ill advised.

No fragments of chapters 37-71 (Book of Parables) were found at Qumran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

If you are going to say that chapters 72-82 are not Divinely inspired because the Ethiopic version for these chapters does not match up with the DSS, then surely you must also say that chapters 31-71 are not either for the same reason.

I find it amaizing how you can say that the Qumran sect did not concider the astonomical section Divilely inspired when they clearly followed the 364 day calendar (4Q320 Frag. 2. Col 2 & Frag. 4 Col. 1, 4Q394 Frags. 307 Col. 1) detailed therein (1Eno 72:8, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27, 29, 31, & 32, 74:10, 12, &75:2).

Comment by James Trimm on July 10, 2010 at 12:02am

Nobody said these chapters were not divinely inspired. What was said is that we can not be clear as to what these chapters actually say. We have enough of the Aramaic of these Chapters to know that it radically disagrees with the Ethiopic and Greek and not enough to know what it actually says. Your attempt at creating a parallel between this and the Book of Parables fails because we do not have an Aramaic text of Parables which differs substantially from the Ethiopic and Greek. In fact in every case where we canonize a book, it is the original autograph that is perfect and inspired.

Comment by jacob on July 10, 2010 at 2:17pm

If the fact that our years should consist of 364 days is in Divinely inspired Scripture, they why do you continue to use a different calenar?

Comment by jacob on July 10, 2010 at 3:12pm

No fragments of Book Three of 1 Enoch, the Book of the Heavenly Lights, have been found among the texts found in cave four at Qumran. Rather; what has turned up is fragments from a much longer work that probably has some connection to Book Three; this text has been given the title of Astronomical Work. The four fragments of this longer work are designated as 4QEnastr-a-d (4Q208-211), and did not share a scroll with any part of 1 Enoch.
http://www.abu.nb.ca/Courses/NTIntro/InTest/1Enoch.htm

Again:
The Qumran sect clearly concidered this section Divilely inspired as they clearly followed the 364 day calendar (4Q320 Frag. 2. Col 2 & Frag. 4 Col. 1, 4Q394 Frags. 307 Col. 1) detailed therein (1Eno 72:8, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27, 29, 31, & 32, 74:10, 12, &75:2). This is perserved in the Ethiopic versin!

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