Alternate Calendar Debate

Comment by Anand Swarup Kumar Katumalla on September 19, 2010 at 11:38am

I come across a new calender, it is creation calender, in that they are claiming that all the calenders now we are following are wrong and even satyrday sabbath is wrong it is the worship of the star saturn and also they raised some points like:
Points to Ponder regarding the Creator's weekly Sabbath

1. The Battle of Jericho was a seven consecutive day battle. Which day was the Sabbath?
2. Genesis 1:14 says that the luminaries in the heavens are for signs, seasons (Hebrew word mo'edim)
days and years.
3. Psalm 104:19 specifically says that the Moon is appointed for seasons (mo'edim again).
4. Leviticus 23:1-3 point blank says that the Sabbath is the first feast (mo'edim again).
5. Can you go outside and look at the sun and tell me what day of the week or month it is?
6. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance says that the Hebrew word #4150, mo'edim, means set times,
times appointed, feasts, etc.
7. Scripture doesn't say WHICH of the appointments are regulated by the moon, so one cannot arbitrarily
say that the Sabbath is not included in this list of appointed times.
8. Every weekly Sabbath that can be date identified in Scripture is always on the 8th, 15th, 22nd or 29th of
the month (not the Gregorian months).
9. If satyrday is the Sabbath, and if the Sabbath is every 7th day in an unending succession of 7 day
cycles, I challenge you to find the evidence for this in Scripture and share it with the rest of us.
10. The historical record also proves that the weekly Sabbath was/is a lunar event, not once every seventh day.
11. Most feast keepers observe Pentecost in the Spring, yet the only wheat harvest in Scripture is in the summer.
12. There are only two kinds of days with the Gregorian calendar, work days and Sabbaths. There is a third category in Scripture:
New Moon day. See study below.
13. Some say that a repeating seven day calendar week goes all the way back to Creation. Can you prove it?
14. You can settle the entire issue if you can produce the evidence from Scripture that proves that Satyrday is the seventh-day
Sabbath.

Can anyone go through the following link http://www.creationcalendar.com/ and lead us into the truth whether these things were right or ....

Comment by Ann Scott on September 19, 2010 at 2:07pm

hello.

reply to number 1: it is permissible to fight a war on sabbath as a last resort; just look at the maccabees!

reply to number 2: agreed

reply to number 3: agreed

reply to number 4: agreed

reply to number 5: that's the wrong way to determine what day it is. try using the sun and moon to figure out how many years since creation its been; it cant be done. likewise, the sun and moon are not intended to teach what day of the week one is currently in; they are meant to indicate when the length and limits of a day.

reply to number 6: agreed

reply to number 7: none of the feasts are to be regulated by the moon in the way you are implying, according.to Scripture.

reply to number 8:um, where is this based in Scripture?

reply to number 9: its the context of Scripture. the whole point of the Enoch Calendar is that everything is in sevens (52 sevens=364). To remove the seven count is to undermine the Caeldnar revealed in Enoch.

reply to number 10: where does history point to this?

reply to number 11: i don't follow you. could you provide sources to explain yourself?

reply to number 12: i believe its not new moon, but new month.

reply to number 13: the context of Scripture proves it.

reply to number 14: you can't prove without looking at history what day is the seventh and last day of the week. you can prove that it is every seventh day, by using the Scriptures.

Shalom, i hope this repsonse of mine has helped a little. This is just what I have come to in my research. Have a great day =).

Comment by jacob on September 19, 2010 at 5:00pm

I'll only deal with 1-8, then show you Biblical proof on the matter.

1) Apply this same question to yourself in point 8. This point does not help your argument out one bit. You cannot get around the fact that they marched for 7 consecution days. However, just for the heck of it, I will give you my understanding on this matter. YHWH gave many commandments. He wants us to know that some of these commandments He gave are more important then others He gave. This is why, on a handful of occations, He told people to do things that go againts his commandments. Examples include:

Due 7:2 compare with Lev 19:8 & Exo 23:4-5
Exo 32:27, Num 25:5 & Deu 20:16 with Exo 20:13 & Gen 9:6
(Myth: the Hebrew word used in Exo 20:13/Due 5:17 means ‘murder’ not ‘kill’
Fact: the Hebrew word used in Exo 20:13/Due 5:17 is תרצח (ratsakh). This word is also used in Num 35:22-35 and Due 19:4, where it refers to the act of killing a person by accident. Murder, on the other hand, means killing with intent to do so. Therefore, the Hebrew word ratsakh cannot mean murder as it is used in these passages.). Instead, the Hebrew word ratsakh simply means ‘kill’ or ‘take away life’.)
Jos 6:2-4 (as you have pointed out) with Exo 20:10-11 & Gen 2:2-3

In all these instances, the underlying commandment (will of our heavenly Father) is found in Exo 19:6, Lev 11:44, 11:45, 18, 19:2, 20:23, 20:26, Due 18:9-14, & Deu 20:16-18. This commandment, which can be traced back to Gen 4:7, is simple, YHWH's main desire is for us to choose to live for Him. This outwieghs a host of other commandments that tells us how to live for others.

(There are a couple other example of commandments that seem to controdict other commandments, such as Num 35:27 and Deu 24:1, but these are given for a different reason: to teach us that we should stive to go above and beyond simply focusing on the written Word.)

2) - 4) & 6) - 7) This Hebrew word, moed, is NOT ALWAYS applied to the feast days! Gen 17:21, Gen 21:2, Exo 9:5, Jos 8:14, Dan 11:35, Dan 12:7, Hos 2:9 & Hab 2:3 are just SOME examples of this. Thus, one cannot use this word to prove that Gen 1:14 and Psalms 104:19 is talking about the feasts.

5) While the looking at the sun cannot tell a person what day it is, an Equatorial Sundial can. According to http://www.wsanford.com/~wsanford/exo/sundials/equatorial_sundials...., using this devise, one can see when the equinones are. Thus, all one would need is one of these sundials and he/she can determine when the begining of Spring (AVIV) (and thus the begining of the year Exo 12:2/34:18) is.
One of these ancient devises HAS turned up in the Qumran discoveries. Thus, we know that the ancient Jews (as least as far back as 2000 years ago) could determine when the year began (and thus, what day of the week, month and year) it was.

As far as Scriptual proof that the days of the week, month and year, including the 7th day, are NOT related to the moon, see Gen 1:16, Gen 7:11;24/8:3-4; 1 Chr 27:1-15, 1 Ki 4:7, Est 3:7, Rev 11:2-3/12:6/13:5 as well as Mat 26:17-21, Mar 14:12-18, & Luk 22:1-15 viewed with Mat 27:1-50, Mar 15:1-37, & Luk 22:66-23:46, Mat 27:1-50, Mar 15:1-37, & Luk 22:66-23:46, Mat 12:40, Mar 8:31, & Jn 2:19 and Mat 28:1, Mar 16:9, Luk 24:1, & Jn 20:1.

Comment by Onieu bahn Duid on November 14, 2010 at 7:29pm

In the Book of Jubilees Group, are we allowed to discuss the festivals? Or for that matter, are we allowed to discuss moedim outside this group? Jubilees is all about explaining the origins of things in Torah, and this would be the intention behind discussing the moedim in the Book of Jubilees, not to discuss another calendar in another group. Let me know =). Shalom.

Comment by James Trimm on November 14, 2010 at 8:00pm

As long as you are not promoting an ALTERNATE calendar, that is fine.

Comment by Candice on February 25, 2011 at 8:40pm

IF HA SHATAN HAS CONTROL OVER THE THINGS ON EARTH THEN WHY DONT WE LOOK UP WHERE HA SHATAN HAS NO CONTROL.  A THOUSAND YEARS AGO PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE A CALENDAR ON THE WALL AND NOT TO MENTION BUT THE WORD CALENDAR IS ACTUALLY NAMED AFTER A PAGAN DIETY.  THE ISRAELITES HAD TO BE SHOWN WHAT YAHUAH'S TIMING  WAS ON EVERYTHING AGAIN AFTER BEING FREED FROM EGYPT.  DO YOU THINK YAHUAH HAD A MAN MADE CALENDAR FOR THEM OR ?

THE WORD MONTH IS ACTUALLY MOON AND IF OUR MOONTHS ARE BASED OFF OF THE MOON'S 29.5 CYCLE THEN WHY DO WE HAVE MOONTHS WHERE THERE ARE 28 OR 31 DAY'S IN THEM?  

MANY TORAH FOLLOWERS ALREADY CAME TO THE REALIZATION THAT THE YEARS ARE OFF, SO WHY WOULDN'T THE REST OF MAN MADE TIMEING BE OFF FOR WE ARE ALL LIVING IN A WORLD OF DECEPTION.  

THE LAST THING I WANT TO SAY IS THAT WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF YAHUAH'S AND IF WE ALL AGREED ON THESE MAJOR SUBJECTS IT WOULD BE A PERFECT WORLD.   WE ALL NEED TO LOVE AND RESPECT ONE ANOTHER FOR YAHUAH SHOW'S RESPECT AND LOVE TWORDS US FOR HAVEING THE PASSION WITHIN US TO SEEK HIS TRUTH,"TORAH".  LYLA TOV VEH CHALOMO PATS. 

Comment by be graves on March 8, 2011 at 10:20pm

I am new to this and will have to go back to fine my verses but I want to say this now while have this open. I read years ago in Genesis that the moon rules the month. and had 30 days. I also read that from 1 new moon to another such and such was to be done or remembered. I have felt for a long time that we should keep the sabbaths, after every 6 days thru out the month. Days begin in the evening and run thru to the next evening Not sun up to to sun up. So why should the sun rule the sabbaths? I have 1 really big question so I could learn how to See if this would truely work out with the feast days. What is the New moon? Is it the blackest or the tiny sliver or? I think also that I read that children could understand easier than people who hold to thier own traditions, I have found that most studies are just from traditions. I want to study not traditions, but our Creators universal laws for his creation. I'll get back with verses and where you can help me Please do so.Thanks for giving me a place to share and ask questions.

Comment by Onieu bahn Duid on March 8, 2011 at 10:30pm

there is no such thing as new moon.  look at the hebrew, it doesn't mention moon at all.  it only mentions "renewal".  those that translate it as "new moon" are deceptive.

 

the Sun rules because the Moon is quite faulty; the moon is not reliable to use as a system.  this is why rabbinics had to invent such warped ideas of intercalation that have no biblical support whatsoever, and ignore scripture such as Chanoch and Jubilees which explicitly tell us the Sun rules, not the moon.  Furthermore, Yahuchanon in his revelation (Revelation of John) explicitly relates to us the true calendar as being 360 days long. Only the solar calendar according to chanoch can fit that 360 requirement.  the lunar falls hopelessly short.

Comment by James Trimm on March 8, 2011 at 10:39pm

6 And even the shining moon wanes according to its time.
Though it is for ruling the seasons and an everlasting sign.
7 By it are the seasons and the times of the statute:
And shining, it vanishes in its circuit.
8 The new moon, according to its name renews itself;
How wonderful is it when it changes!
The beacon of the host wanes on high,
Leaving the firmament aglow from its shining.

(Sira  43:6-8)

Comment by Onieu bahn Duid on March 8, 2011 at 10:47pm

I agree, in this passage of Sirach, Yahushua is referring to the renewal of the moon.  But, to translate it as new moon i still think is deceptive, because that's not what the hebrew says.  That's what "renewal" is referring to in this context, but the actual word is not "new moon" but its "renewal" or "new".

 

There is more than one renewal: renewal of the sun, and renewal of the moon.  When Scripture refers to the renewal in all those passages in the tanakh, i don't see it as jusitifed to translate as "new moon" when the context does not demonstrate such, but is solely based onthe bias of the translator as to which renewal it is referring to in the passage.  Notice that the translators assume the calendar is a lunar year, and thus translate as new moon, even though this is not justified by the hebrew.

 

The moon is important in that it tells us when night time is every day of the year.  WIthout this, we would nto have any of the sacred times.  But, with that said, i am convinced it is the sun that determines the months and the years, and it is the moon that determines solely the night time of a day.

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