Raumschach: James Trimm vs. David Jonathan Bush
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Jonathan Bush on -
Oops! I made a mistake in the image. Apparently, the rules page I looked at put the black unicorns where the black bishops should be and vice-versa. The corrected image is at http://tinyurl.com/37kdnzj and the Google docs folder which will hold each move of the game is at http://tinyurl.com/35vspud
I hope this meets your approval! David -
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Permalink Reply by James Trimm on
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My first move:
1. BCa2
BTW I have an actual Raumschach board which I built myself:
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Permalink Reply by David Jonathan Bush on
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That is completely awesome. Excellent craftsmanship!
Before we proceed, there are some middling details I would like to make sure we both agree on. Specifically, how the pawns capture, and how they promote.
Suppose a black pawn is in the center of the board, at Cc3. On the C plane, it can capture like a regular pawn, white pieces at Cb2 and Cd2. It can also capture white pieces at Bb3 and Bd3. This capturing movement is always like a 2-D bishop, not like a unicorn. The Cc3 pawn can NOT capture a white piece on Bc2, even though this movement would also be a 2-d bishop movement. I can easily change this capturing rule if it does not seem correct to you.
White pawns must reach the E5 rank to promote, and black pawns must reach the A1 rank. A pawn can promote to a queen, rook, bishop, unicorn, or knight, regardless of what pieces your opponent has captured.
Sorry for being pedantic, but it's better to discuss this now than at a moment when the outcome of the game may depend on a rules interpretation. I will gladly use any rule set you prefer. -
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OK lets reference the rules at:
http://www.chessvariants.com/3d.dir/3d5.html
Pawn
The Pawn's move is a little more complicated than in 2-D chess. The following chart explains the
move options
of each side's Pawns:
Passive Moves Capture Moves White Pawn straight-forward or straight-upward diagonally forward or diagonally forward-upward Black Pawn straight-forward or straight-downward diagonally forward or diagonally forward-downward (Please understand that the forward direction is relative to the initial placement of one's pieces, whereas the upward and downward directions are absolute.)
According to the above chart, a White Pawn at Ac2 can move to Ac3 (as in 2-D chess) or Bc2 and capture at Ab3, Ad3 (as in 2-D chess), or at Bb2, Bd2, and (according to some) at Bc3, although I personally do
not like this variant. [Please note that Anthony Dickens supports the
Bc3 move in A Guide to Fairy Chess.]Pawns promote on the last (or fifth) rank, which is the far side of level A and level B for White, and the far side of level D and level E for Black. There is no 2-step initial move in Raumschach, thus no
en passant capture.
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Now I have always played following that chart above, but I see that the text below describes a pawn capturing three dimensionally sideways "a White Pawn at Ac2 can move to Ac3 (as in 2-D chess) or Bc2 and capture at Ab3, Ad3 (as in 2-D chess), or at Bb2, Bd2" although the chart says "diagonally forward or diagonally forward-upward".
I have always played with diagonal forward-upward (or for black downward) and never with the sideways capture described above (but I am not adamant about this).
The issue you bring up is the "and (according to some) at Bc3, although I personally do not like this variant. [Please note that Anthony Dickens supports the Bc3 move in A Guide to Fairy Chess.]"
From what you say above you agree with the rule against forward capture altogether?
Do you have any thoughts on the impact this makes on a game? I can see that a pawn can easily make it within two moves to Cc3 and threaten the opposing pawns in just two moves. Is that the issue?
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Permalink Reply by David Jonathan Bush on
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I don't really have a clue how the different ways to capture might affect game play. I've never played Raumschach before. My concern for now is just to make sure we agree on the rules before we get involved in the game.
I also wanted to use the web page you reference, until I noticed that it was less than clear. As you point out, the text after the chart contradicts the text in the chart. Since you have played according to the text in the chart, we can go with that. So, using my example of a black pawn on Cc3, it can capture at Cd2 or Cb2 like a 2-d bishop on the same level, and like a unicorn when capturing a piece on the level below, at Bd2 or Bb2. It will not be able to capture on Bd3, Bb3, nor Bc2. I hope this is the way you like it.
You might like to look at the discussion page for that rules page, at
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/listcomments.php?itemid=Raumschach
That's where I discovered the black unicorns and bishops were set up incorrectly (now corrected in the image at the top of this page), and read different interpretations on how pawns should capture and promote. Some players think the promotion zone should be larger than just one rank of five cells. So, I could enlarge the promotion zone if you would like. -
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Yes I think we can agree on the rules, http://www.chessvariants.com/3d.dir/3d5.html using the chart rather than the text below it and with the 5 cell promo zone.
BTW I have only played a handful of games a few years ago with my son, although I have played Millennium Chess (8x8x3) and before that Chess Cubed (almost the same game) since I was a child.
David Jonathan Bush said:
I don't really have a clue how the different ways to capture might affect game play. I've never played Raumschach before. My concern for now is just to make sure we agree on the rules before we get involved in the game.
I also wanted to use the web page you reference, until I noticed that it was less than clear. As you point out, the text after the chart contradicts the text in the chart. Since you have played according to the text in the chart, we can go with that. So, using my example of a black pawn on Cc3, it can capture at Cd2 or Cb2 like a 2-d bishop on the same level, and like a unicorn when capturing a piece on the level below, at Bd2 or Bb2. It will not be able to capture on Bd3, Bb3, nor Bc2. I hope this is the way you like it.
You might like to look at the discussion page for that rules page, at
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/listcomments.php?itemid=Raumschach
That's where I discovered the black unicorns and bishops were set up incorrectly (now corrected in the image at the top of this page), and read different interpretations on how pawns should capture and promote. Some players think the promotion zone should be larger than just one rank of five cells. So, I could enlarge the promotion zone if you would like. -
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Just checking to see if you are out there...
No hurry.
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Permalink Reply by David Jonathan Bush on
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My move is Dc3
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James Trimm vs. David Jonathan Bush
(Raumschach)
1. BCa2 PDc3
2. RCa1 -
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Permalink Reply by David Jonathan Bush on
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1. BCa2 PDc3
2. RCa1 NCd4
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James Trimm vs. David Jonathan Bush
(Raumschach)
1. BCa2 PDc3
2. RCa1 NCd4
3. UCd2 -
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Permalink Reply by David Jonathan Bush on
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I play Dd3. Now I AM threatening your Unicorn :-)
James Trimm said:James Trimm vs. David Jonathan Bush
(Raumschach)
1. BCa2 PDc3
2. RCa1 NCd4
3. UCd2 -
© 2013 Created by James Trimm.
