What does the phrase, "All Isral will be saved," mean?
Many Believers interpret the statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” to mean that after “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” Yeshua will return, reveal Himself as Messiah to the Jewish people and, as a result, the entire Jewish race will experience a mass conversion. I don't believe this is so!
The key to understanding this statement is to understand which “Israel” Paul is referring to: Israel “according to the flesh,” Israel “according to the promise” or the “Israel of Elohim!” In order to answer this question properly; however, we must first examine his statement, “all Israel will be saved,” in context!
In Romans 11:13-24,Paul likens Israel to a cultivated olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off due to unbelief. Of course, the branches that remained on the tree symbolize remnant Israel, the “children of the promise,” and the branches that were cut off symbolize the “children of the flesh” (Rom. 9:1-8). In the same analogy, Paul also likens Gentiles to a wild olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off and grafted into the cultivated olive tree, remnant Israel. Then, he explains that those branches that were grafted into remnant Israel symbolize Gentile converts to the faith.
Immediately after using the analogy of the two olive trees, Paul added, “For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away wickedness from Jacob...” (Rom. 11:25-26).
Notice that Paul does not state, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And then all Israel will be saved.” He states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.” The word “so” was translated from the Greek word “houto” which, according to the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon, means: “in this manner,” “thus,” or “so.”
Thus, the context proves that Paul’s statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is a concluding statement to the topic he was currently addressing- the cultivated olive tree. This proves that the “Israel” he is referring to in his statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is the Israel symbolized by the cultivated olive tree, which includes both Israelite Believers and Gentile converts to the faith, the Israel of Elohim (Gal. 6:15-16).
YHWH, because He is a loving Elohim, will not wait until the fullness of the Gentiles has come to strip away Israel’s blindness. The truth is that He has been stripping away their blindness all along, even during the times of the Gentiles. Paul states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”
Had Paul intended the statement to mean that after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, all Israel will experience a mass conversion, he would have included that statement in his letter to the Hebrews!
Shalom!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on -
@ Solomon.
The Lie made to Adam and Eve wasn't: " That they would be like Yahweh - in having Freewill ", but rather: " That they [ too ] would be able to possess The True Power and Ultimate Authority That He Alone Exclusively Exercises! "
For in Psalm 82, the scriptures clearly read: " I Said You Are Gods, And You Are All The Children Of The Most High God " - just as, Yahshua Himself quoted from it! But, if you wouldn't listen to Him, then why should you listen to me?
Meanwhile, the fact that you cannot [ truthfully ] perceive this important fact, is glaringly obvious.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on
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@ Anokly Baqash.
Exactly!
Anokiy Baqash said:Isa 27:6 In days to come shall Jacob take root, Israel shall blossom and bud; and the face of the world shall be filled with fruitage.
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Permalink Reply by 命 on -
Psalm 82 refers to angels, which are indeed Elohim ("divine") according to the scriptural definition.
Are you telling me you believe in Satan's lie, that men should become divine ?
Frank Barbour said:
@ Solomon.
The Lie made to Adam and Eve wasn't: " That they would be like Yahweh - in having Freewill ", but rather: " That they [ too ] would be able to possess The True Power and Ultimate Authority That He Alone Exclusively Exercises! "
For in Psalm 82, the scriptures clearly read: " I Said You Are Gods, And You Are All The Children Of The Most High God " - just as, Yahshua Himself quoted from it! But, if you wouldn't listen to Him, then why should you listen to me?
Meanwhile, the fact that you cannot [ truthfully ] perceive this important fact, is glaringly obvious.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on
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@ Solomon.
You said: " Are you telling me you believe in Satan's lie, that men should become divine ? "
No Solomon, I'm not!
In fact, I'm telling you that: You clearly don't understand The Scriptures.... Men Were Already Created In Yahweh and Yahshua's Own Images... and That Lucifer's Lie Had Absolutely Nothing To Do With Freewill - which humans obviously already had, or they couldn't have chosen to disobey Yahweh in the first place!
Pardon me, but your own particular phraseology is very much [ ie.. noticeably ] like the serpent's own. Remember how he phrased it?
" Has God indeed said, You shall not eat of every tree in the garden? ' " But, Eve then actually corrected him by saying, " We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree - which is in the midst of the garden - God has said, ' You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. ' "
Why do you, also, use such: Carefully and Cleverly Calculated Language? Do you, honestly, believe that this shall somehow [ also ] trip me up? Why not just use plain speech like normal people use in everyday conversation... rather than, carefully constructed logical traps - which I am already quite wizened to?
Or, are you [ actually ] A Prosecuting Attorney - or something similar - and just so used to it, that you can't even notice when you are truthfully doing it? Because, that is not the way normal people phrase their own conversational language!
Never fear, however, brother Solomon.... From here on out, I'll try to do my utmost to catch you at it and carefully remind you, that you are actually doing it - so that you can overcome this particular stumbling block. After all, that's what friends are for....
Oh, by the way, Psalm 82 is clearly talking about Human beings... after all, " All The Foundations Of The Earth Are Unstable. " Meanwhile, of course, The Foundations Of Heaven Are Just Fine!
Shalom.
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Permalink Reply by 命 on
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It sounds to me like you're saying you believe Satan when he said mankind are (or can become) Elohim....
Let's examine some verses from ps.82:
6“I said (AMARTI = past tense), ‘You are ELOHIM;you are all BENEY ELYON.’
In this verse, YHWH is referencing a past statement.What past statement?
These, for example:Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7
When did YHWH ever call mankind or human rulers ELOHIM/BENEY ELYON; I understand you think he is calling them this in the psalm (for the first time) - but my point is, the psalm is referecing a previous statement, which I don't think you'll be able to show me....Can you show me a past statement (ie occuring prior to David and Asaph's time) that said this ?
7But you will die like mere men;you will fall like every other ruler.”
All humans will die like men, and all human rulers expect to die like other human rulers, so this statement is nonsensical if it is addressed to humans.
Frank Barbour said:
Oh, by the way, Psalm 82 is clearly talking about Human beings... after all, " All The Foundations Of The Earth Are Unstable. " Meanwhile, of course, The Foundations Of Heaven Are Just Fine!
Shalom.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on
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@ Solomon.
You said: " It sounds to me like you're saying you believe Satan when he said mankind are (or can become) Elohim.... "
Thank You, Solomon, the way a person truthfully says things truly does matter. It is amazing how many situations that I witnessed being: Escalated and/or Diffused - by the way things have been so foolishly worded! After all, I spent ten years in The United States Army; and six years in Law Enforcement.
Although it may [ in fact ] sound that way if you have misunderstood my own statements, or [ even ] what they are fundamentally based upon, I can fully assure you that this isn't the case!
Moreover, when you said: " In this verse, YHWH is referencing a past statement [ or even statement(s) ]. " - you were fundamentally correct.... In Fact, He is referencing Numerous Past Statements - from within earlier in this particular Psalm and, indeed, from elsewhere within The Scriptures.
In Genesis Chapter 1, verse 26, The Scriptures clearly relate:
" Then The Mighty One said [ To His Son, The Word ], " Let US make man [ Human Beings ] in OUR Image [ Possessing Freewill And True Choice ], and according to OUR Likeness [ And In OUR Physiological Appearance ]; let them have dominion [ True Power And Authority ] over: The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the cattle, all of the earth, and everything that creeps upon the earth [ Thus, The First Man Was Set Over The Entire Earth ].
So The Mighty One created man in His Own Image [ He Created Them To Be HIS Mighty One(s) ], in the image of The Mighty One He [ The Word ] created him [ To Be The Children Of The Mighty One ]; male and female He [ The Word ] created them [ Our First Two Human Parents ],
Then The Mighty One blessed them [ By Giving Them Life ], and The Mighty One said to them, ' Be fruitful and multiply [ Produce Offspring For My Glory ], Fill the earth and subdue it [ For I Have Given It Solely To You As My Own Gift ], Have dominion [ True Ruler-Ship Authority ] over: The fish of the sea, Over the birds of the air, And over everything that moves upon the earth [ For I Have Given Them All To You ]. " - Genesis 1:26-28.
You see, Solomon, Adam and Eve were factually created in Yahweh's Own Image; and they possessed the: True Power and True Authority - to command the earth and all of its animals to fully obey them! In Their Non-Fallen State, they could do everything that Yahshua [ Himself ] attempted to fully teach us - but, we were truly blinded to what He was honestly saying:" I say to you [ Those Of You Who Will Listen ], if you have faith [ Towards The Mighty One Himself ] as a mustard seed [ The Smallest Seed Upon The Earth ], You will say to this mountain [ Or Any Other One That You Yourself Choose ]. ' Move from here to there ', and it will [ Factually ] move, And nothing [ That You Shall Choose To Do ] shall be impossible for you [ Because You Already Possess The True Power ]. " - Mathew 17:20.
The Ability To Do True Magic [ Or To Produce Apparent Miracles ] Is Already Inside Each Of Us [ We Are The Mighty One(s) ] - when our relationship is properly aligned with ' The True Wishes Of The Mighty One '! However, in The Fallen State, we cannot substantially do these things....
So what knowledge did the fruit of the tree impart to Adam and Eve? The underlying fundamentals upon which Yahweh [ The Macroverse ] operates - which we would call: Science and Technology. That is ' The True Black Magic' which the occult has hidden from us - by altering our own historical perceptions of what constitutes our own human reality! And they did it by: overthrowing kingdoms, subtly altering books, burning down the great libraries, etc....But, what is so great about Modern Technology? Modern Technology utilizes
Yahweh's Own Physical Laws Against Him... and is necessary in their own human and demonic efforts to effectually control Him... but, Miracles are fully subject to your own ongoing spiritual relationship towards Him! Satan offered them the opportunity to potentially conquer The Mighty One; and thus become True Gods....
Yahweh says of Himself: " I Am ", " I Am Everything That Exists ", " I Am The Eternal One ", " I Am The Living One ", etc....
He [ also ] says: " You Are All Part Of My Spiritual Body ", " I And MY Son Are One ", " You Are All One ", etc....
Do you get it now?
Solomon said:
It sounds to me like you're saying you believe Satan when he said mankind are (or can become) Elohim....
Let's examine some verses from ps.82:
6“I said (AMARTI = past tense), ‘You are ELOHIM;you are all BENEY ELYON.’
In this verse, YHWH is referencing a past statement.What past statement?
These, for example:Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7
When did YHWH ever call mankind or human rulers ELOHIM/BENEY ELYON; I understand you think he is calling them this in the psalm (for the first time) - but my point is, the psalm is referecing a previous statement, which I don't think you'll be able to show me....Can you show me a past statement (ie occuring prior to David and Asaph's time) that said this ?
7But you will die like mere men;you will fall like every other ruler.”
All humans will die like men, and all human rulers expect to die like other human rulers, so this statement is nonsensical if it is addressed to humans.
Frank Barbour said:
Oh, by the way, Psalm 82 is clearly talking about Human beings... after all, " All The Foundations Of The Earth Are Unstable. " Meanwhile, of course, The Foundations Of Heaven Are Just Fine!
Shalom.
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on -
just for the sake of statement: "you are gods".
this one refers to "men" particularly those men with authority or power over others. the psalm begins with "congregation of the mighty" that is definitely of human; and it finishes with "die like mere men" despite of their might and power on earth.
"Let's examine some verses from ps.82:
6“I said (AMARTI = past tense), ‘You are ELOHIM;
you are all BENEY ELYON.’"
..be it past participle or present tense: G-d has spoken and it holds "true" for all time. you cannot unmake an Adam just because he is spoken in past tense.
In this verse, YHWH is referencing a past statement.
What past statement?
These, for example:
Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7
..this is fallacy. the psalm is not talking about "giants" and all these proof verses to derail the argument of opponent all use "third persons" but the psalm passage in issue is "second person" talking to man and about men of might. that is certainly a bad argument. unacceptable.
- I understand you think he is calling them this in the psalm (for the first time) -
..note what the Moshiach says and how He applied the verse concerning men:
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:34-35) not merely sons but themselves gods. the scripture cannot be broken merely because it is "past tense".
- but my point is, the psalm is referecing a previous statement, which I don't think you'll be able to show me....Can you show me a past statement (ie occuring prior to David and Asaph's time) that said this ?
..where G-d says He has spoken... He has spoken and don't look for a writing because the passage merely says "He has spoken" it does not allege that "He has written"! we must take the word of the prophet for that even if he cannot show us any text.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on
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@ Solomon.
In Essence, It wasn't good enough for Adam and Eve to be: " Like God " - or, To Be Created In His Own Image - they wanted to ' Effectually Control HIM '... And that, Dear Solomon, was The Lie Perpetrated By Ha Shatan.....
And why was it a lie? Because Yahweh is fully capable of altering ' His Own Physical Laws ' - at any time!
Adam and Eve bought ' The Lie '... and The Illuminati [ or The Illiminated Ones ] have created an entirely fabricated mental reality through: Mysticism, The Occult, Paganism, Wicca, Evolution, and Spiritual Babylon - to carefully and cleverly maintain it. Because, if the rest of us actually wake up - before they are actually ready - then they're in for some very serious trouble!
Meanwhile, of course, The Watchman is already awake....
" The Axe [ The Truth ] lies at the base of the trees [ The World's Technologically Advanced Nations ], and The Woodsman picketh up The Axe [ To Examine It ] " - and what shall I do with this Axe? Chop...chop... chop....
Would you like to join me? It's up to you.... It's Up To All Of You! And that, dear brothers and sisters, is because You Already Truly Have Freewill....
Hopefully, however, you are ' Truly Ready ' for such knowledge.
Shalom.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on
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@ Solomon.
Your own body consists of 26 Billion: Individual, Conscious, Fully Aware, And Living Cells - which work together for their own mutual benefit! While, your own: Overall and Driving Consciousness [ or awareness ] - is actually quite singular in nature.
Meanwhile, Yahweh's Own Body consists of Billions Of: Angels, Human Beings, and Numerous Other Creatures - that are supposed to be doing likewise... but some of them [ The Selfish And Greedy Ones ], aren't doing what they are supposed to do! They are ' The Cancer Cells ' within Yahweh's Own Physical/Spiritual Body... and He is fixing to physically remove them forever! And, That's why: " The Day Of Judgment Is Coming. "
Yahweh: " The Mighty One " - is ' That Singular Consciousness ' Over His Own Physical Body!
Ahava and Shalom.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on
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Yahshua stated: " As it was just before The Flood, So it shall [ factually ] be at The End Of The Age [ The Time Of The Judgment ]. "
Before The Flood, they possessed: Modern Technology, Satellites, Computers, Cell Phones, Space Craft, etc.... - and, thus, they refused to believe Noah - when he was building The Ark! Who ever heard of: " Rain ", or of, " Flooding "?
If such things could [ honestly ] happen, then our own scientists would tell us these things! Wouldn't they? But, ' Not, if they never happened before; and Yahweh can [ truthfully ] alter His Own Universal Rules! '
Nimrod possessed ' The Knowledge Of How Things Actually Worked ' from before The Flood - and thus it was written of him: " He was A Mighty Man in all of the earth. " Moreover, he utilized this technology to build himself A Tower - that could withstand Another Flood; and be tall enough To Remain Above The Waters! But, Yahweh confused their languages; and set them against one another....
Anyway, I have my own blog postings to make....
Shalom.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Barbour on
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None of my postings have ever been threatening Kefa. You have only chosen to perceive them that way - for whatever reason.
Although I am [ truly ]: " As wise as a serpent [ Thanks To The Spirit Of Yahweh ]... " I am always [ and will continue to remain being ]: " As Harmless As A Dove [ For The Very Same Reason ].... "
However, like The Apostle Paul [ himself, so eloquently, stated ]: " I Will Be All Things [ If Truly Necessary ] To All People [ Each Of Them Individually ], That Some Of Them [ The Spiritually Led Ones ] Shall Be Saved [ From The Ongoing Errors Of Spiritual Babylon ]! "
I do not seek out conflict. However, when you honestly speak ' The Truth ', conflict seems to quite-readily find you! Such is The True Nature Of Life - while living among fallen humanity....
Shalom.
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Permalink Reply by 命 on
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..note what the Moshiach says and how He applied the verse concerning men:
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:34-35) not merely sons but themselves gods. the scripture cannot be broken merely because it is "past tense".
I believe the Messiah is refrring to himself as Elohim, by the logic that if angels are called Elohim, then Messiah is most definetely Elohim. Humans are not called Elohim in this verse, nor in psalm 82.
beryl etanah said:
just for the sake of statement: "you are gods".
this one refers to "men" particularly those men with authority or power over others. the psalm begins with "congregation of the mighty" that is definitely of human; and it finishes with "die like mere men" despite of their might and power on earth.
"Let's examine some verses from ps.82:
6“I said (AMARTI = past tense), ‘You are ELOHIM;
you are all BENEY ELYON.’"
..be it past participle or present tense: G-d has spoken and it holds "true" for all time. you cannot unmake an Adam just because he is spoken in past tense.
In this verse, YHWH is referencing a past statement.
What past statement?
These, for example:
Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7
..this is fallacy. the psalm is not talking about "giants" and all these proof verses to derail the argument of opponent all use "third persons" but the psalm passage in issue is "second person" talking to man and about men of might. that is certainly a bad argument. unacceptable.
- I understand you think he is calling them this in the psalm (for the first time) -
..note what the Moshiach says and how He applied the verse concerning men:
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:34-35) not merely sons but themselves gods. the scripture cannot be broken merely because it is "past tense".
- but my point is, the psalm is referecing a previous statement, which I don't think you'll be able to show me....Can you show me a past statement (ie occuring prior to David and Asaph's time) that said this ?
..where G-d says He has spoken... He has spoken and don't look for a writing because the passage merely says "He has spoken" it does not allege that "He has written"! we must take the word of the prophet for that even if he cannot show us any text.
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