What does the phrase, "All Isral will be saved," mean?
Many Believers interpret the statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” to mean that after “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” Yeshua will return, reveal Himself as Messiah to the Jewish people and, as a result, the entire Jewish race will experience a mass conversion. I don't believe this is so!
The key to understanding this statement is to understand which “Israel” Paul is referring to: Israel “according to the flesh,” Israel “according to the promise” or the “Israel of Elohim!” In order to answer this question properly; however, we must first examine his statement, “all Israel will be saved,” in context!
In Romans 11:13-24,Paul likens Israel to a cultivated olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off due to unbelief. Of course, the branches that remained on the tree symbolize remnant Israel, the “children of the promise,” and the branches that were cut off symbolize the “children of the flesh” (Rom. 9:1-8). In the same analogy, Paul also likens Gentiles to a wild olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off and grafted into the cultivated olive tree, remnant Israel. Then, he explains that those branches that were grafted into remnant Israel symbolize Gentile converts to the faith.
Immediately after using the analogy of the two olive trees, Paul added, “For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away wickedness from Jacob...” (Rom. 11:25-26).
Notice that Paul does not state, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And then all Israel will be saved.” He states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.” The word “so” was translated from the Greek word “houto” which, according to the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon, means: “in this manner,” “thus,” or “so.”
Thus, the context proves that Paul’s statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is a concluding statement to the topic he was currently addressing- the cultivated olive tree. This proves that the “Israel” he is referring to in his statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is the Israel symbolized by the cultivated olive tree, which includes both Israelite Believers and Gentile converts to the faith, the Israel of Elohim (Gal. 6:15-16).
YHWH, because He is a loving Elohim, will not wait until the fullness of the Gentiles has come to strip away Israel’s blindness. The truth is that He has been stripping away their blindness all along, even during the times of the Gentiles. Paul states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”
Had Paul intended the statement to mean that after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, all Israel will experience a mass conversion, he would have included that statement in his letter to the Hebrews!
Shalom!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Yishmael on -
what i find funny is that i use the Scriptures to react while most people seem to go rabbinic here...
have you all never read this authentic Nazarene commentary ???
On Isaiah 8:20-21
When the Scribes and Pharisees tell you to listen to them, men who do everything for the love of the belly and who hiss during their incantations in the way of magicians in order to deceive you, you must answer them like this: 'It is not strange if you follow your traditions since every tribe consults its own idols. We must not, therefore, consult your dead about the living ones. On the contrary, God has given us the Law and the testimonies of the Scriptures. If you are not willing to follow them you shall not have light, and the darkness will always oppress you. It will cover your earth and your doctrine so that, when you see that they have been deceived by you in error and they feel a longing for the truth, they will then be sad or angry. And let them who believe themselves to be like their own gods and kings curse you. And let them look at the heaven and the earth in vain since they are always in darkness and they can not flee away from your ambushes"
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Permalink Reply by Yishmael on
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"It is clear that the Nazarenes considered the final authority in any such debate to be the Old Testament and not later rabbinic interpretation, i. e. they rejected the concept of halakaha" (Nazarene Jewish Christianity, p. 63).
On Isaiah 9:1-4
When Mashicha came and his preaching shone out, the land of Zebulon and Naphtali [the region of Galilee] first of all were freed from the errors of the Scribes and Pharisees and he shook off their shoulders the very heavy yoke of the JEWISH TRADITIONS. Later, however, the preaching became more dominant, that means the preaching was multiplied, through the gospel of the apostle Paul who was the last of all the apostles. And the gospel of Christ shone to the most distant tribes and the way of the whole sea. Finally the whole world, which earlier walked or sat in darkness and was imprisoned in the bonds of idolatry and death, has seen the clear light of the gospel"
The Nazarenes existed well into the third century, and were actively engaged in a dialogue -- "heated, no doubt," says Ray Pritz -- with rabbinic Judaism. Pritz adds that the Nazarene Jewish Church was "familiar with the developments within Judaism and rejected the authority of the pharisaic scholars to interpret scripture definitively.". . . Nor did they accept as binding on themselves (or on any Jews) the Oral Law as embodied in the Mishnah. These Jewish Christians view Paul and his mission favorably and evidently even accepted -- in theory at least -- the unity of the Church as composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Mashicha. . . And finally, this group had not lost hope that the Jewish people might yet turn to accept Yashua as the Messiah" (p. 70).
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on -
why, do you claim you can fathom the Mind of G-d as to 'whom' He shall decide to enter the Malchot Shomayim and 'who' not? it is best to say it is secret to Him, than claim you know what He knows, for in that manner you are another god.
Solomon said:Who says this is a "secret thing" ?
beryl etanah said:
James Trimm has put up a very good rabbinic perspective.
but i do think "All Israel" means "all".
all those whom G-d admits into the ulam haba' among his people.
whether it be a portion or the entire nation, only G-d knows. and what business do we have to gossip about who and who is not? i think the secret things belong to G-d, but the Torah is for us to keep.
lets proceed to a better topic. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on
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:-( )
James Trimm said:Abba Shaul in Mishna 10:1 was not Paul
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on
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Yshmael, from whosoever you derived this commentary it is not authentic nazarene.
Yishmael said:"It is clear that the Nazarenes considered the final authority in any such debate to be the Old Testament and not later rabbinic interpretation, i. e. they rejected the concept of halakaha" (Nazarene Jewish Christianity, p. 63).
On Isaiah 9:1-4
When Mashicha came and his preaching shone out, the land of Zebulon and Naphtali [the region of Galilee] first of all were freed from the errors of the Scribes and Pharisees and he shook off their shoulders the very heavy yoke of the JEWISH TRADITIONS. Later, however, the preaching became more dominant, that means the preaching was multiplied, through the gospel of the apostle Paul who was the last of all the apostles. And the gospel of Christ shone to the most distant tribes and the way of the whole sea. Finally the whole world, which earlier walked or sat in darkness and was imprisoned in the bonds of idolatry and death, has seen the clear light of the gospel"
The Nazarenes existed well into the third century, and were actively engaged in a dialogue -- "heated, no doubt," says Ray Pritz -- with rabbinic Judaism. Pritz adds that the Nazarene Jewish Church was "familiar with the developments within Judaism and rejected the authority of the pharisaic scholars to interpret scripture definitively.". . . Nor did they accept as binding on themselves (or on any Jews) the Oral Law as embodied in the Mishnah. These Jewish Christians view Paul and his mission favorably and evidently even accepted -- in theory at least -- the unity of the Church as composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Mashicha. . . And finally, this group had not lost hope that the Jewish people might yet turn to accept Yashua as the Messiah" (p. 70).
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Permalink Reply by 命 on -
He has revealed his plans in the scriptures.
You are unwittingly telling me to not read and proclaim the message of the scriptures.
You are saying something is hidden, which is not hidden.
As regards your self, you are free to admit you are unsure or ignorant, but don't project such problems onto me.
beryl etanah said:
why, do you claim you can fathom the Mind of G-d as to 'whom' He shall decide to enter the Malchot Shomayim and 'who' not? it is best to say it is secret to Him, than claim you know what He knows, for in that manner you are another god.
Solomon said:Who says this is a "secret thing" ?
beryl etanah said:James Trimm has put up a very good rabbinic perspective.
but i do think "All Israel" means "all".
all those whom G-d admits into the ulam haba' among his people.
whether it be a portion or the entire nation, only G-d knows. and what business do we have to gossip about who and who is not? i think the secret things belong to G-d, but the Torah is for us to keep.
lets proceed to a better topic. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by 命 on
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Interesting.
It certainly sounds realistic.
Yishmael said:
"It is clear that the Nazarenes considered the final authority in any such debate to be the Old Testament and not later rabbinic interpretation, i. e. they rejected the concept of halakaha" (Nazarene Jewish Christianity, p. 63).
On Isaiah 9:1-4
When Mashicha came and his preaching shone out, the land of Zebulon and Naphtali [the region of Galilee] first of all were freed from the errors of the Scribes and Pharisees and he shook off their shoulders the very heavy yoke of the JEWISH TRADITIONS. Later, however, the preaching became more dominant, that means the preaching was multiplied, through the gospel of the apostle Paul who was the last of all the apostles. And the gospel of Christ shone to the most distant tribes and the way of the whole sea. Finally the whole world, which earlier walked or sat in darkness and was imprisoned in the bonds of idolatry and death, has seen the clear light of the gospel"
The Nazarenes existed well into the third century, and were actively engaged in a dialogue -- "heated, no doubt," says Ray Pritz -- with rabbinic Judaism. Pritz adds that the Nazarene Jewish Church was "familiar with the developments within Judaism and rejected the authority of the pharisaic scholars to interpret scripture definitively.". . . Nor did they accept as binding on themselves (or on any Jews) the Oral Law as embodied in the Mishnah. These Jewish Christians view Paul and his mission favorably and evidently even accepted -- in theory at least -- the unity of the Church as composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers in Mashicha. . . And finally, this group had not lost hope that the Jewish people might yet turn to accept Yashua as the Messiah" (p. 70).
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Permalink Reply by Yishmael on
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umm beryl.. this is from the church fathers (who HATED the natzarim) qouting Nazarene commentaries in their works, this is as authentic as it gets ! It lines up pretty well with the gospel critic of the Pharisaic doctrines;
5. The scribes and the Pharisees asked him. “Why don’t your disciples walk according to the traditions of the elders? But while they eat bread their hands are not washed!”6. And he said to them, Eshaya the prophet did well prophesy about you hypocrites! As it is written that. “This people honor me with their lips. But their hearts are very distant from me. 7. And vainly they fear me while they are teaching the doctrines of the commandments of the sons of men. 8. For you have left the commandment of God, and you have embraced the tradition of the sons of men, the washing of cups and of pots and many others that are like these. 9. He said to them, You well rejected the commandment of God that you might establish your tradition. 10. For Moshe said to honor your father and your mother, and anyone who reviles his father and his mother, “Let them be put to death!” 11. But you say, “If a man says to his father or to his mother. ‘My offering is what you have gained from me.’” 12. Then you do not allow him to do anything for his father or for his mother. 13. And you despise the word of God, because of the tradition that you have handed down and that resemble these many things that you do.
there were at least 7 different sorts of "judaism" in the 2nd Temple times and if we were to count all the sub-sects too then we have 40 different movements within judaism ! There was more than the pharisees out there, that is something people seriously need to get ... Natzarim does not equal pharisees
beryl etanah said:Yshmael, from whosoever you derived this commentary it is not authentic nazarene.
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on
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solomon i did not project any problem to you. neither am i ignorant concerning the gospel.but as concerns "who shall enter into the Kingdom or who shall not" i think this prerogative the Moshiach has reserved to himself. it is written "he shall come in the glory of the Father, to judge everyone" --so don't make his final mission a travesty by proclaiming that you know already "who" these men are.
Solomon said:He has revealed his plans in the scriptures.
You are unwittingly telling me to not read and proclaim the message of the scriptures.
You are saying something is hidden, which is not hidden.
As regards your self, you are free to admit you are unsure or ignorant, but don't project such problems onto me.
beryl etanah said:
why, do you claim you can fathom the Mind of G-d as to 'whom' He shall decide to enter the Malchot Shomayim and 'who' not? it is best to say it is secret to Him, than claim you know what He knows, for in that manner you are another god.
Solomon said:Who says this is a "secret thing" ?
beryl etanah said:James Trimm has put up a very good rabbinic perspective.
but i do think "All Israel" means "all".
all those whom G-d admits into the ulam haba' among his people.
whether it be a portion or the entire nation, only G-d knows. and what business do we have to gossip about who and who is not? i think the secret things belong to G-d, but the Torah is for us to keep.
lets proceed to a better topic. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on
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there were at least 7 different sorts of "judaism" in the 2nd Temple times and if we were to count all the sub-sects too then we have 40 different movements within judaism ! There was more than the pharisees out there, that is something people seriously need to get ... Natzarim does not equal pharisees
i didn't read that "number of sects" from the apostles. the source is not inspired. do you mean the letter of Barnabas? or the shepherd of Hermas?
Yishmael said:
umm beryl.. this is from the church fathers (who HATED the natzarim) qouting Nazarene commentaries in their works, this is as authentic as it gets ! It lines up pretty well with the gospel critic of the Pharisaic doctrines;
5. The scribes and the Pharisees asked him. “Why don’t your disciples walk according to the traditions of the elders? But while they eat bread their hands are not washed!”6. And he said to them, Eshaya the prophet did well prophesy about you hypocrites! As it is written that. “This people honor me with their lips. But their hearts are very distant from me. 7. And vainly they fear me while they are teaching the doctrines of the commandments of the sons of men. 8. For you have left the commandment of God, and you have embraced the tradition of the sons of men, the washing of cups and of pots and many others that are like these. 9. He said to them, You well rejected the commandment of God that you might establish your tradition. 10. For Moshe said to honor your father and your mother, and anyone who reviles his father and his mother, “Let them be put to death!” 11. But you say, “If a man says to his father or to his mother. ‘My offering is what you have gained from me.’” 12. Then you do not allow him to do anything for his father or for his mother. 13. And you despise the word of God, because of the tradition that you have handed down and that resemble these many things that you do.
there were at least 7 different sorts of "judaism" in the 2nd Temple times and if we were to count all the sub-sects too then we have 40 different movements within judaism ! There was more than the pharisees out there, that is something people seriously need to get ... Natzarim does not equal pharisees
beryl etanah said:Yshmael, from whosoever you derived this commentary it is not authentic nazarene.
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Permalink Reply by 命 on
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We're not discussing "who shall be in the millennial kingdom."
The scriptures reveal that everyone will be saved (eventually), however.
That is an essentialy component of "the Gospel."
beryl etanah said:
solomon i did not project any problem to you. neither am i ignorant concerning the gospel.but as concerns "who shall enter into the Kingdom or who shall not" i think this prerogative the Moshiach has reserved to himself. it is written "he shall come in the glory of the Father, to judge everyone" --so don't make his final mission a travesty by proclaiming that you know already "who" these men are.
Solomon said:He has revealed his plans in the scriptures.
You are unwittingly telling me to not read and proclaim the message of the scriptures.
You are saying something is hidden, which is not hidden.
As regards your self, you are free to admit you are unsure or ignorant, but don't project such problems onto me.
beryl etanah said:why, do you claim you can fathom the Mind of G-d as to 'whom' He shall decide to enter the Malchot Shomayim and 'who' not? it is best to say it is secret to Him, than claim you know what He knows, for in that manner you are another god.
Solomon said:Who says this is a "secret thing" ?
beryl etanah said:James Trimm has put up a very good rabbinic perspective.
but i do think "All Israel" means "all".
all those whom G-d admits into the ulam haba' among his people.
whether it be a portion or the entire nation, only G-d knows. and what business do we have to gossip about who and who is not? i think the secret things belong to G-d, but the Torah is for us to keep.
lets proceed to a better topic. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on
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We're not discussing "who shall be in the millennial kingdom."The scriptures reveal that everyone will be saved (eventually), however.That is an essentialy component of "the Gospel."
yes, you have a point though. but to my personal understanding, although a future event is hinted in clear words, the manner and time of completion of that oracle necessarily remains in the mind of G-d alone.
this is personal, you may or you may not agree; but one thing certain: 'you can agree to disagree' :-)
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