The Middle Pillar

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Permalink Reply by 命 on January 1, 2011 at 3:44am

Although I'm not sure I can answer your question, I must say this:
I am very much delighted by any co-operation and manifestation of brotherly love between Ishmael and Israel, between Muslims of Arab, Persian, or other descent, and the Jews. This very much warms my heart.

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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on January 1, 2011 at 3:45am

Mine as well.

 

For all too long have the sons of Ephraim, Judah, and Ishmael been at odds with one another.

Christian said:

Although I'm not sure I can answer your question, I must say this:
I am very much delighted by any co-operation and manifestation of brotherly love between Ishmael and Israel, between Muslims of Arab or Persian descent, and the Jews. This very much warms my heart.

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Permalink Reply by Noor ul Amin Ali on January 1, 2011 at 4:45am

Hello

My fellow mystical brothers and sisters.

Shalom to all who have answer my post.

Let's not duel in past history of our four father's seed of Adam (MPBUH) or our current Prophet of Allah.

May Peace Be Upon Them from all Seven Havens.

I am seeker of Knowledge , Wisdom a Sufi on Mysitcal paths seek answer to so his Soul (Spirit) can also be touched by Nur (Light of Allah). Allow me to expand my question can Tree of Life(Meditation) which is connected to Middle Pillar(Meditation)can done  be quicker, faster lets instant. If one does not have time for long ceremonies , and rituals.

With all due respect I am in path to learn , advance my mystical knowledg to higher levels.

Well you are correct my mother's blood line Persain and my Father's in modern day Pakistan.

Allah placed my Soul(Spirit) in body who took birth in Shia Ismaili Musilim sub sect of Islam.

We are follower's of 49th living Imam we given our Oath to 7th grandson of our Prohpet (MPBUH), Imam Ismaili.

As I have said and told you all in my post it is the Will Allah for me to be here to additional learning and advancement.

According to the words of Sufi Master Rumi " We must keep knocking the Door" It will be opened from other side.

First step is to knock the door some one will answer. I shall see  who will answer my knocking of the door.

Peace

Blessings

May Allah guide us all to our pahts

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Permalink Reply by Mikha El on January 1, 2011 at 8:47am

Shalom Light of Allah,

 

I too shall reply to your knocking at the Nazarene door. Bur I must first ask you concerning your saying "follower of the 49th living Imam". Surly you are aware of the controversy surrounding the topic of "MAZHAR of ALLAH".(Copy of Allah)? Do you consider/believe that Karim Aga Khan was/is "DEVINE" and actually has the universal powers he claimed such as found in some of his writings which I paste below?

 

Before you answer though, I must tell you, that we Nazarenes know the Quran tells us that the Eternal Torah is true and furthermore tells us that "Yahweh our Elohim" is ONE". The manifestation of Ayn Sof is then as we believe the Torah and Nazarene writings tell us ...an extension of this ONE

 

This Tree of Life therefore is presented to us as Father (Yahweh), Mother (Ruach or "holy spirit") and Son (Yeshua). We believe there is no room for a 4th pillar as Karim wishes us to belive. Please present to us your belief on this keeping in mind our Arabic is very weak and knowing that my intention is not to bring strife but only clearer understanding of our path to the Eternal One. 

 

 

 

 

The late 48th Imam had candidly claimed "Divinity" within several of his Farmans (e.g., "Heaven and Hell (to give) is in my hand" of February 20, 1910, Rajkot,
India and published in a book entitled; Khangi Farman, page
72;

There is no communication
from Allah that defines any Imam, appointed directly or remotely, to be
the "Mazhar of Allah".
The
important question is; should a Muslim place his/her trust upon the Words
of Allah or the Wordings of an International  Conference?

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Noor ul Amin Ali on January 2, 2011 at 1:10am

Hello
My mysitacl and spiritul brother Mikha El Shalom to you.

I respect your question and I will answer to best of my ability ,skill, wisdom and knowlege.

First Let's make sure of one thing do not judge me of what I am , what I pracitce and how I see this mundane world , spiritul world and the mystical world as well. Before I move forward explain you and other fellwo msytical brothers and sisters here.

Keep this in mind My Spirit (Soul) in my body was put or placed in me by Allah and sent me to the hous of Shia Ismaili Musilim. I did not make the choice to be born in that house first try to understand that point of view.  Second no one in this mundane world , mystical world or in spiritul world can judge me of what type and kind of religion , fath or creed I follow and practice. Only Allah is judge of that and I will and shall only answer to Him alone when my that time comes.  Please keep this in mind. Now that is cleared for all how will read this post I will anwer your question.  Please read below information about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahl_al-Bayt,http://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

Ghadir Khumm

Main articles: Hadith of the pond of Khumm and Hadith of the two weighty things

As Muhammad was returning from his last pilgrimage in 632, he made statements about Ali that are interpreted very differently by Sunnis and Shias.^[1] He halted the caravan at Ghadir Khumm, gathered the returning pilgrims for communal prayer and began to address them^[44]:

The Investiture of Ali, at Ghadir Khumm (MS Arab 161, fol. 162r, AD 1309/8 Ilkhanid manuscript illustration).

O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a message from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah(Qur'an) in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family.^[45]

This quote is confirmed by both Shi’a and Sunni, but they interpret the quote differently.^[46]

Some Sunni and Shi'a sources report that then he called Ali ibn Abi Talib to his sides, took his hand and raised it up declaring^[47]

"For whoever I am a Mawla of, then Ali is his Mawla.^[48]"

The Shia's regard these statements as constituting the investiture of Ali as the successor of Muhammad and as the first Imam; by contrast, the Sunnis take them only as an expression of Muhammad's closeness to Ali and of his wish that Ali, as his cousin and son-in-law, inherit his family responsibilities upon his death. ^[49] Many Sufis also interpret the episode as the transfer of Muhammad's spiritual power and authority to Ali, whom they regard as the wali par excellence.

Ali was prominent at the Battle of Uhud, as well as many other battles where he wielded a bifurcated sword known as Zulfiqar.^[37] He had the special role of protecting Muhammad when most of the Muslim army fled from the battle of Uhud^[1] and it was said "There is no brave youth except Ali and there is no sword which renders service except Zulfiqar."^[38] He was commander of the Muslim army in the Battle of Khaybar.^[39] Following this battle Mohammad gave Ali the name Asadullah, which in Arabic means "Lion of Allah" or "Lion of God". Ali also defended Muhammad in the Battle of Hunayn in 630.^[

^{The important information I have pasted from the web link. You all may read your self the details about in given time.}

^Peace

^Blessings

^{May Allah guide us all to our paths.}

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Permalink Reply by Mikha El on January 2, 2011 at 7:57am

Noor,

 

There is to much Arabic above for me to understand. The link you provided is not functioning so I was unable to further investigate your belief, most assuredly without the intent of "judging you". Would you tell me in your own words, please...Do you believe any of the Imam's were DEVINE in nature and not mere men as you and I?

 

If you say they were beyond mere men, I cannot understand why anyone would ascribe to this thinking since it contradicts everything the Torah tells us. If you tell me they were/are mere men, why would you wish to say you follow them as opposed to saying you adhere/"follow" the Torah as the Quran states we are to do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Noor ul Amin Ali on January 2, 2011 at 8:09pm

Hello

Mikha El

My Elohim Shower His Bleeings and Mercy upon you and your family members in this world and the next.

Now as I have mentioned to told you and other mystical and spiritul brothers and sisters I did not chose to be born as Shia

Ismaili Muslim. This question is for very one who is douting me of what my faith, creed is and what a fellow. As Sufi's and Mystics we pay for our deeds , actions, shortcomings and sins in this world as well in the next world. Lets say for example we will call this person Mr Cool. Let us say that Mr. Cool Spirit (Soul) was put in the body of boy in house of Fire Worshipper.Now keep in mind that only Elohim for me is Allah who has the ultimate power to do these things. Now that Mr.Cool follows his fathers and monthers creed, faith and religion.  For Mr. Cool's action will be taken wrong. But for those who are willing to embrace Mr. Cool will not find it wrong.Same way when Allah placed my Soul (Spirit) in the body of this man told is called and known in world as Noor ul Amin Ali. How's both parents and grand parents where Muslims sect is Shia and sub sect Ismaili follower's of the Imam.  Our four fathers followed same rules, guide lines and teachings of our Holy Prophets which where passed down from our first Imam Ali to all other Imam's that followed same path. Please read the Islamic history as an intellegent Spirit and Soul Islam and Ismaili as done and brought next new wisdom , knowledge to Western Society in the Middle Ages both Jews Monks and Christian Monks use to work Sufi Master both in Sunni side and Shia. Even to today in major collages and universities same things are happing today. Stop judging me a Shai Muslims Ismaili with all due respect.  Ok I have one more example for you brother Mikha if Prophet Musa (MPBUH) or Prophet Isa (MPBUH) came into your dream and told you and many others  in your groups from today you will put your right hand in pucked full dirt and mud rub it all over your face and then go worship with my name in front of our Holy Father. What would do then if do it others will may call you crazy, If you dont do it then you may be missing a chance to see and feel and Light of Divine in this life or the next.  Take is example think about and then let me know.  I am frim on my  faith , my creed and my way of life. I am not greed for Haven I do not fear Hell. I love and worship Allah because is only Creator of Univese and Cosmos. He knowns why I am telling you this and He Knowns why you do not understand me also. Only He alone can open your mind to accept me of what I am in this life on this Planet which we call it Mother Earth. Peace

Blessings

May Allah guide us all to our paths.

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Permalink Reply by Mikha El on January 3, 2011 at 4:30pm

Noor,

 

How could I possible be "judging you" iwhen it seems you refuse to answer my simple question?  Does your faith teach there is any "diety" aside from Allah/Ayn Sof that has come to earth in the form of a human being? Worst case senerio here is that we would have to agree to disagree. I promise, I won't send any judges after you!  :>) 

 

One other question for you please....Who is the Middle Pillar in your faith? We Nazarenes teach it is Salvation in the form of Yeshua who came and died for your sins and mine, ..so long as we acept this fact,

 

Peace

 

(No judging...HONEST!) 

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Permalink Reply by Noor ul Amin Ali on January 3, 2011 at 8:53pm

There is only One Allah,

Prophet Muhommed was last Prophet to according to Islam.

I am Shia Our Holy Prophet Pass his esotoric knowledge, wisdom to his Son-in-Law Our first Holy Imam.

Our current Imam is 49th Living Imam most people do not understand mystical path of Islam. Here is link http://www.amaana.org/history/history1.htm.   Middle Pillar is know in Mystic Sufism as Sufi Cross of Light Mim to left hand side, ha to right hand side, lam is on left hand top side, ha is pointing to the sky north , ya is pointing down to south to Earth. Our Imam is not Allah but His soul and spirit is better then mine. His blood is blood of Imam's not mine. We follow teachings of Imam Ali throug our Imam as Spiritul leader not Allah. Most people will not understand the mystical depth of Islam at all. Here is saying of the Sufis, When See your Imam you can feel as if you are seeing your Holy Prophet, As you see your Holy Prophet you feel as if Nur (Light) of Allah is near you. Can you understand this.

Peace

Blessings

May Allah guide us all to our paths.

I will only answer to Allah He alone is my Judger.

No one on your Earth or Universe holds that Right to Judge me for my deeds, actions, and Sins.

My Path to Allah's Blessings and Mercy is through hands of my Living Imam that is all.

Now do you understand this.

Peace

Blessings

May Allah guide us all to our paths.

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Permalink Reply by James Trimm on January 3, 2011 at 11:21pm

Noor,

Lets back up a bit, before Muhammed and before Islam to find some common ground. Let us agree to seek the truth of the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Abrahamic Faith. We already have many things in common in our common understanding of the Abrahamic Faith. You pray five times a day, we pray three. You face Mecca, we face Jerusalem. And neither of us eat pork. Your Suffism is very similar to our Kabbalah.

The Quran says:

"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing."
(Surah 2:256)

We should therefore be able to agree that:

Our beliefs must be big enough to include all of the facts,
Open enough to be tested
And flexible enough to change.

Now the Quran does not claim to be the first inspired book of Scripture:

He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
Surah 3:3

Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood
And (We sent) apostles We have mentioned to you before and apostles we have not mentioned to you; and to Musa, Allah addressed His Word, speaking (to him):
Surah 4:163-164

And that which We have revealed to you of the Book, that is the truth verifying that which is before it; most surely with respect to His servants Allah is Aware, Seeing.
Surah 35:31

And those who disbelieve say concerning those who believe: If it had been a good, they would not have gone ahead of us therein. And as they do not seek to be rightly directed thereby, they say: It is an old lie.
And before it the Book of Musa was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good.
Surah 46:11-12

The Quran speaks of the Torah (Taurat) as a previous book of inspired Scripture:

Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood
4:164

Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
5:44

He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
3:3

And most certainly We gave Musa the Book and We sent apostles after him one after another; and We gave Isa, the son of Marium, clear arguments and strengthened him with the holy spirit, What! whenever then an apostle came to you with that which your souls did not desire, you were insolent so you called some liars and some you slew.
2:87

And certainly We gave the Book to Musa, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.
32:23

And before it the Book of Musa was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good.
46:12

Or, has he not been informed of what is in the scriptures of Musa?
53:36

The Quran also mentions the ZABUR (Psalms) :

And your Lord best knows those who are in the heavens and the earth; and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, and to Dawood We gave a scripture.
(17:55)

And implies inspiration for the rest of the Tanak:

Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood
(4:163)

And your Lord best knows those who are in the heavens and the earth; and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, and to Dawood We gave a scripture.
(17:55)

The Quran also speaks of the Injil (Gospel) as having been an inspired book of Scripture:

Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood.
(4:163)

He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
(3:3)

And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).
5:46

And the Quran implies inspiration of Scriptures by Yeshua's disciples (Acts-Rev?)

And when I revealed to the disciples, saying, Believe in Me and My apostle, they said: We believe and bear witness that we submit (ourselves).
When the disciples said: O Isa son of Marium! will your Lord consent to send down to us food from heaven? He said: Be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers.
(5:111-112)

The Quran states that inspired Scripture is infallible and cannot be corrupted:

And the word of your Lord has been accomplished truly and justly; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they only lie.
6:115-116

(This is Our) course with regard to those of Our apostles whom We sent before you, and you shall not find a change in Our course.
17:77

(Such has been) the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah.
33:62

And certainly apostles before you were rejected, but they were patient on being rejected and persecuted until Our help came to them; and there is none to change the words of Allah, and certainly there has come to you some information about the messengers.
6:34

The Quran teaches that the Bible (specifically the Injil) has greater authority than the Quran in that the Quran may be judged using the Bible as a standard:

And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil)….

And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. ...
Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
(5:46, 68)

There is no need to hide from the truth found in the Bible:

Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too).
(2:159)

Some Muslims have tried to argue that the Bible was corrupted.

Lets approach this with a logic tree:

Was the corruption before of after the time of Mohammed?

If we say "before" then we must ask why the Quran never mentions this, but instead suggests that these books as they existed at that time were inspired and should be consulted to either prove or disprove the claims of the Quran.

If we say "after" then we should acknowledge that the many textual witnesses we have to the text of the Bible which predate Mohammed. After the time of Mohammed the various competing sects of Christendom and Rabbinic Judaism would never agree to the others alterations.

So the Bible could not have been corrupted before or after the time of Mohammed.

And of course the Quran says that Inspired Scriptures cannot be corrupted (as shown previously).

So in seeking the true faith of Abraham, we should begin with a correct understanding of the Bible.

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Permalink Reply by Noor ul Amin Ali on January 4, 2011 at 8:47pm

Hello

My mystical and spiriutl Brother James Trimm

Shalom , I am very humbled and touched with joy after reading your reply on my post.

Well we Shia Ismaili Muslims pray three times in day as well. I just want to let you know that.

No question you are asking why certain not all Muslims has the Holy Bible is corrupted is not about old Testiment.

They are talking about the New Testiment. As far as what you are telling is all correct who am I to question Allah. the Injil,the ZABUR (Psalms) and Torah (Taurat) is word and work of Allah throuhg His Angles Gabriel Messenger of Allah.

Here is question why do we say that only the King James Version of Bible is the best then other version.

Just like Islam has at one time Christendom had 73 sub sect  but now in Islam only major ones have remain till today rest of them are gone. When one creed, faith message of Prophet Isa gets divided into 73 sub sect the original word of Allah is changed by those who see things fit according to there thought and way of life. That is only logical example I can give share with you. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Peace

Blessings

May Allah gudie us all to our paths.

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Permalink Reply by Mikha El on January 5, 2011 at 7:56am

Hello again, Noor

 

I can tell you with certainity that we Nazarenes are not fooled by the bias the KJV translators used in their promotion mandated by a King who insisted his name be put on it. Instead we know the Hebrew and Aramaic writings are much more authentic. I highly suggest you check rabbi Trimm's translated work called the HRV. (Hebraic Roots Version) It's available in book form or in a searchable pdf form. Just click on either link at the main page here.

 

Rabbi Trimm has shown you how well he knows what the Quran says regarding it's promotion of the "bible". I strongly suggest you study it as much as you have the Quran.

 

We too are aware of the thousands of sects of "Christendom". We also know they cannot all be correct because the Injil tells us there is only ONE true faith, given ONCE for all. That faith we know to be Nazarene Judaism, not Twistianity, not Islam, not whatever other false system of salvation anyone wishes to promote which strongly violates the entirity of the written Word.

 

I hope I have not offended. That is not my intention. PEACE! 

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