hillazon snails / tzit tzit
i recently ran into a messianic rabbi who teaches against the blue tzit tzit practice as she believes the snail to be an 'abomination'. my studies tell me that snails are only unclean to eat, that the blue dye was extracted while the snail was alive so i cannot find where this is any kind of abomination. this rabbi has been teaching against this for 2 years. i believe this is in violation of torah, which makes her torahless....?
how would you effectively argue this?
http://www.tekhelet.com/timeline.htm
how would you effectively argue this?
http://www.tekhelet.com/timeline.htm
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on -
My questionis this?
Not adding to Torah is the command, what would we call any writing in addition to Torah?
i do agree that the opinions here of Talmud are skewed, however not completely inaccurate. We can't take liberty here and make absolutes to additional inspired writings. Each writing has its value in contrast to Torah and we need to weigh each writing on its own merit to obtain Right Ruling for ALL Yisrael; Diaspora,or Yahudah!
We may not agree with Talmud, however if the ruling is fully inline with Torah we must follow it, regardless of our emotions.
Channakah, Purim, Birthdays, are just a few of the rulings Torah observant believers practice, Torah only gave us Seven Appointed Times, yet we enjoin others as we verbally attack Talmud and Traditions, when YEWE clearly allowed the Seventy to rule according to the Ruach of Wisdom granted to them in Bemidbar 11.
We are all here to obtain knowledge and wisdom for edification of the Body of the Anointed One, and i do take caution with the Talmud, however it contains an abundance wealth of knowledge, wisdom and insight that can't be completely and totally rebuked.
Shalom
J. Jury said:Scott Ledbetter said:Instead of just doing what the Mitzvah says, there had to be extra rules and regulations put in place all because the Rabbi's did not understand the Torah, and so created their own ways of obeying so that they could understand Torah. That, my firend, is adding to Scripture. If you read something into it that is not there, you have added to Scripture. If you ad to Scripture, you have violated the Torah. It is actually quite simple when you take the wisdom of men out of it. Besides, using the Talmud is no different that using the Christian Theology. Both are either adding to or taking away from Scripture while using the wisdom of men, men that were not inspired, to justify changing what Scripture means.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! That is exactly what I've been trying to say!!
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Permalink Reply by Yaacov on -
Mattityahu 16:19 HRV (Yehoshua speaking to Kepha)"And to you will I give the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you will prohibit on earh had been prohibited in Heaven; and whatever you permit on earth has been permitted in Heaven"
Mattityahu 18:18 HRV (Yehoshua speaking to his talmidim/disciples):"Truly I tell you, all that you will prohibit on earth has been prohibited in Heaven also and all that you permit on earth has been permitted in Heaven also."
Were Kepha or the the talmidim/disciples on the council of the Jewish Sanhedrin?No.
Who then is Yehoshua giving halachic authority to in those passages???
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Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on
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The Torah was completed at Mount Moab besides the covenant at Horeb by Moshe, and placed next to the ark as a witness against you?
Since Torah is complete, would not every inspired writing be an addition toTorah as Right Ruling, not deviating to the left or the right? But an addition so each Yisraelite to better understand the Torah, causing us to have the same mind and the same opinion.
Are we not taught to study to show ourselves approved by the Talmidim through their additional writings that line up with Torah?
Shalom
Scott Ledbetter said:R.T.,
I clearly stated that I do not have all the answers. I clearly stated: "I teach that no one should take me solely on my word, but search Scripture to see if what I am saying is true or not. I am human, and as such, I will make mistakes, but I can not et anyone into Heaven, for that is something that they must do for themselves." I am a human, and as a human, I will make mistakes. So how am I calling the kettle black. I do not say go to my teachings, I say go to Scripture. Scripture says what It means and means what It says, and Scripture does not need humans to interpret It. The Oral Torah is just men interpreting and telling others what Scripture really means. Go read word for word what Scripture says and you will see that many of the so called "halacha" is nothing but rulings that ad to or take away from Scripture. Christians do the same thing with their Theology.
I do not teach that people should go by my rulings. No where on this group will you see that. It is hypocrites that tell you not to go by that persons rulings or teachings, but rather to go by theirs. If you believe in something that Scripture has not told us to do or not to do, then it is adding to Scripture. That is as plain as the nose on my face. I am not saying for you to do as I teach, but do as Scripture teaches. If you do no like Scripture, then you will have a problem with me, because that is all that I hold up and point to. Yes, there is a great delusion being sent out by YHVH to keep those that refuse to accept the Truth from accepting it. So be like others who have called me names and maligned me, because you are not saying anything bad about me, but my Master whom I gladly serve, YHVH.
There is only one right way, and any deviance from that way is sin. Does not the Torah tell you not to deviate to the left or to the right? Any deviance is breaking the Mitzvah of YHVH. So if I am wrong for warning people to not deviate, then take it up with YHVH. If you do not like what I have to say, take it up with YHVH. Go back and read what I posted, and see that I said I was human and therefore I make mistakes.
Rick & Debbie Toole said:Hum Bug !!! You tell everyone not to add or take away. In all of your post, all I have seen is your view of what scripture is saying. Stop calling the kettle black and realize there is more than just your view . And you don't hold the key to all the answers. R.T.
Scott Ledbetter said:Shalom,
All I teach is the Scripture, teach people how to read and understand by using the definitions of words, and tell them to go strictly by the Word, and not to deviate to the left or the right. I teach that no one should take me solely on my word, but search Scripture to see if what I am saying is true or not. I am human, and as such, I will make mistakes, but I can not et anyone into Heaven, for that is something that they must do for themselves. Study to show yourself approved unto YHVH means exactly that. Scripture says what It means and means what It says, with no interpretation of man needed. Simply look at what the Word says and go by that.
Shalom Rav,
Scott
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Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on
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Scriptures says you must leave your gift at the altar, and go settle things with your brother, before your offering is acceptable to YEWE???
Shalom
Scott Ledbetter said:Here is the problem with all of us getting along, I detest ecumenicalism and I have no use for any of man's philosophies, traditions, and commandments, whether they be Christian or Jewish. I only care what YHVH had to say. I do not read commentaries, for they are full of the wisdom of men. So how can to walk together unless they agree? Can you explain this to me please? How do you reconcile the differences between Aharon and myself based on the statements I have made? Would it be fair for you to ask Aharon to give up his Oral Torah to walk with me?
DUD MaKaBI (David Markus) said:I believe that oral Torah has some value. Filter, filter, filter! If it doesn't line up with Torah and prayer then toss it! . What I believe, is that putting a fence around a commandment is OK as we see in the Prophets the use of Oral Torah. When it becomes adding to or taking away from Torah then it's like building the fence so high that it collapses in on the original commandment. I am not sola scripture as it has been put but, come on people! Judaism has adopted just as much paganism and baggage as christianity has, It's not about being Jewish or Gentile anymore in the sense we know it today, it's about people uniting in the One True Aleim of Israel! Let us stop this division, and be brothers! May Yeweh unite us, and guide us all to the truth!
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Permalink Reply by James Trimm on
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Scott,
You need to study more.
1) electric sparks are not "fire" - the halacha in question does not apply to Nazarenes because it was made in Rabbinic Judaism AFTER the first century.
2) Our teaching on th enew moon is not of Kaarite origin, it is of MISHNAIC origin, before the Hillel II calendar of the post-Mishnaic period. Saem point, post first century Rabbinic halacha is non binding on Nazarenes.
3) Nazarene halacha looses the Shabbat to "make known the knowledge of Elohim" (read the Shabbat halacha passed by the International Nazarene Beit Din).
Aharon is right on track, he has studied well.
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Scott,
If you want to understand Yeshua's teaching on divorce in Mt. 19 see:
http://nazarenespace.ning.com/group/nazarenehalacha/forum/topics/21...
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Scott,
The Nazarene halacha on polygamy (and divorce) as in Mt. 19 is here:
http://nazarenespace.ning.com/group/nazarenehalacha/forum/topics/21...
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Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on
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This reads quite like a ruling against; maybe the Sages, Priets, Prophets and the Rabbi's have a point?
It seems you have taken a rough template of mishna to formulate your thoughts to present for others to follow?
There is always a time to pray, fast, and meditate, and develop commentary being led by the Ruach haQodesh, slow to anger,slow to speak, and respond by the fruit of the Spirit in which no Torah can come against!
I can see much insight and wisdom in both you and Aharon, we should all oppose anything violating Torah, to correctly divide the Torah of Truth, in that we all agree.
Let us all create, fashion, and form our minds into one thought and one opinion, since there is only One Teacher!
Baruch haShem YEWE.
Scott Ledbetter said:Look, if I went and studied every commentary and other work that men makes, then I could prove whatever they are wanting me to believe in. If I read all the works of Martin Luther, I could see and understand where he was coming from and understand his anti-Semitic teachings, because if I use his works to interpret Scripture, I come out with a Lutheran view of Scripture. If I used Calvin's works to interpret Scripture, I would come away with a Calvinistic point of view. If I use the Talmud to interpret Scripture for me, then I come away with a Jewish theological view point. But if the Jewish Theological view point was correct, then why did Yeshua come at all?
As some here have pointed out, some of the talmud is in error of Torah. if it is in error, then why follow any of it? I am sure Luther's and Calvin's works have some good stuff in them, but do I really trust men, who were not inspired, who taught false doctrines that went against Scripture for any Scriptural basis? The answer is no.
Theology is the study of God. It is a Greek term coming from Theos - God - and the suffix -ology which comes from Logos. This term is not used in Scripture at all, so why should we be using it? Theos was the title for all of the Greek gods and goddesses, so by saying you are studying theology, you are saying you are studying false gods. There is only one and His name is YHVH.
When I was studying with a Sephardi Rabbi, I saw pictures of centuries old Synagogues, and one of those Synagogues had a Zodiac chart with the symbols on the floor of the Synagogue. Forgive me, I do not remember which one it was. I have not studied Judaism and the Talmud since 2002. When were these things introduced into Judaism? During the Babylonian captivity. So before the time of Yeshua, we already see false teachings, doctrines, and false elohim already being introduced into the Jewish religion. The Talmud was not codefied until after the time of Yeshua. In it are the teachings of Rabbi's and Rabbinical halacha. How do we know that the sages that the Talmud refers to that were before the Talmud as codefied actually said what the Talmud says they did? We do not. The modern Rabbi's teach that Hillel or Shammai, or any of the others that came before the Talmud was codified, said what they said based on the what someone who came after Yeshua claim that they said. We do not have the original writings because it was Oral Torah. So you have to take the Rabbi's word that the sages actually said that.
So if you say that no ruling post Sanhedrin can be trusted, then how can you trust the Talmud at all? And are you going to say that the Sanhedrin, which ruled Yeshua a false Messiah figure and said He blasphemed, is a trusted source? The Sanhedrin in the time of Yeshua was actually stacked with Sadducee's, or as the modern Pharisee's like to say, Kararites. So you have Modern Pharisee's claiming to follow the rulings of the Sanhedrin that was a majority Sadducee and pronounced the death sentence on Yeshua. That is like saying that we should use the Biblia Hebraica version of the Tanach produced by Rudolph Kittle, who was both an anti-Semite and the father of Gerhard Kittle, the Christian voice of the Nazi's.
I will not accept carte blanche the words of someone who said that they were qoting a sage that did not live when those sages lived and was not quoting from something written but from the stories Rabbi's had told down through the centuries. The only way I want to see Scripture is how Scripture says to see it, and not through the biases and doctrines of someone else. Give me Scripture or give me death. There are far too many leaps of faith that one must take to take the Talmud as completely right, and knowing that there are things it teaches that goes against Scripture, then you can not take anything at all from it. If I gave you an orange that had a little mold on it, would you east around the mold? Of course you would not.
How do we know that any of the halacha that is ascribed to Moses in the Talmud actually came from Moses? How do we know that anything that is ascribed to any of the sages that came before the first century actually are what they said and taught without any change? We do not. I have been criticized because I do not remember every piece of Talmud teaching that I received 7+ years ago. And if I remember something, but it is not accurate, if nothing was written down to correct me, then how would anyone know if I got it wrong or not? They would not. So this is why I can not and will not support the Talmud aka Oral Torah.
Note this about Kabbalah: "Kabbalah (Hebrew: קַבָּלָה, lit. "receiving") is a discipline and school of thought concerned with the mystical aspect of Judaism. It is a set of esoteric teachings that is meant to explain the relationship between an infinite, eternal and essentially unknowable Creator with the finite and mortal universe of His creation. In solving this paradox, Kabbalah seeks to define the nature of the universe and the human being, the nature and purpose of existence, and various other ontological questions. It also presents methods to aid understanding of these concepts and to thereby attain spiritual realization. Kabbalah originally developed entirely within the milieu of Jewish thought and constantly uses classical Jewish sources to explain and demonstrate its esoteric teachings. These teachings are thus held by kabbalists to define the inner meaning of both the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) and traditional rabbinic literature, as well as to explain the significance of Jewish religious observances.
According to the Zohar, considered the main foundational text for kabbalistic thought ("Kabbalah Iyunit"-Contemplative Kabbalah, as opposed to "Kabbalah Maasit"-Practical Kabbalah[2]), Torah study uses four levels of interpretation (exegesis) of its text.[3] [4] Their initial letters spell "PaRDeS" ("Orchard"):
* Peshat (lit. "simple"): the direct interpretations of meaning.
* Remez (lit. "hint[s]"): the allegoric meanings (through allusion).
* Derash (from Heb. darash: "inquire" or "seek"): midrashic (Rabbinic) meanings, often with imaginative comparisons with similar words or verses.
* Sod (lit. "secret" or "mystery"): the inner, esoteric (metaphysical) meanings, expressed in kabbalah.
Kabbalah is considered, by its followers, as a necessary part of the study of Torah – the study of Torah (the "Teachings" of God, in the Tanach and Rabbinic literature) being an inherent duty of observant Jews.[5] Kabbalah teaches doctrines that are accepted by some Jews as the true meaning of Judaism while other Jews have rejected these doctrines as heretical and antithetical to Judaism. After the Medieval Kabbalah, and especially after its 16th Century development and synthesis, Kabbalah replaced "Hakira" (Jewish philosophy) as the mainstream traditional Jewish theology, both in scholarly circles and in the popular imagination. With the arrival of modernity, through the influence of Haskalah, this has changed among non-Orthodox Jewish denominations, though its 20th Century academic study and cross-denominational spiritual applications (especially through Neo-Hasidism), has reawakened a following beyond Orthodoxy.
The origins of the actual term Kabbalah are unknown and disputed to belong either to Jewish philosopher Solomon ibn Gabirol (1021–1058) or else to the 13th century CE Spanish Kabbalist Bahya ben Asher. While other terms have been used in many religious documents from the 2nd century CE up to the present day, the term "Kabbalah" has become the main descriptive of Jewish esoteric knowledge and practices. The Kabbalistic literature, which served as the basis for the development of Kabbalistic thought, divides between early works from the 1st-2nd centuries CE (such as the Heichalot texts and the earliest existant book on Jewish esotericism "Sefer Yetzirah"); Medieval works around the 13th century CE (of which the main book is the Zohar); and early-modern developments, especially 16th century Safed (Cordoveran and Lurianic Kabbalah) and 18th century Eastern Europe (Hasidism and Lithuanian Jewish Orthodox interpretations).
According to Kabbalistic tradition, knowledge was transmitted orally by the Patriarchs, prophets, and sages (Hakhamim in Hebrew), eventually to be "interwoven" into Jewish religious writings and culture. According to this tradition, Kabbalah was, in around the 10th century BCE, an open knowledge practiced by over a million people in ancient Israel,[6] although there is little objective historical evidence to support this thesis."
There is no proof of Kabbalah being from before the 11th century. It is a tradition and those that hold to it claim you can not fully understand Scripture or Rabbinical teachings - Talmud - without it. Sure it claims that by tradition to be before the time of Yeshua, but once again, nothing was written down, and so there is no proof and you have to take someone's word who took someones work who took someone's word on it all the ay back to the 11th or 13th centuries. Now, what is the definition of esoteric? Merriam-Webster defines esoteric as: designed for or understood only by the specially initiated. That sounds like the Mason's, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and other secret societies. Where in Scripture is this even encouraged? It is not, but esoteric studies, of which witchcraft is, is forbidden in Scripture.
There is in a nutshell why I cannot accept anything from the Talmud/Oral Torah and/or the Kabbalah. I am sure that either Aharon and/or others will try to nit pick all of this apart and to justify why they submit to them, or else I will be sent packing from this site. For this reason, I will post this on another site(s) to make sure that this knowledge is not lost.
Scott
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Scott,
1. Come on over tomorrow at 5PM. Sorry, but with the lawsuit and my other duties, I have been VERY busy.
2. Please suspend your debate here until after we meet.
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Permalink Reply by Joe L. Henderson on
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Strange in all these comments, I did not see a single male with "corners of the beard" not trimmed, wearing the phylactries(sp), or the clothing of the old Middle East! Probably no ancient girdles either. And I wonder just what putting on what pertaineth to a man might mean? Think that one through carefully. Something here like the letter killing and the spirit making alive. C'mon get real about what you are supposed to be doing and not how you are supposed to be wearing. As for the snails, like most injunctions it was for good reason...avoidance of parastitical infections, etc. Some from what I read are particularly nasty. You like dye, extract it, using safety precautions, but it is a lot cheaper to by goods already dyed..
You like the escargot?
Cook 'em and eat them...after all they are in shells are they not.
Me, I can't bring myself to do so, but...I'm not starving. Were I to be.....
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Permalink Reply by Joe L. Henderson on
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1. What gift, what altar? Pigeons, goats, lambs, etc. If truly observant Jewish why are you not doing this? If walking the fence or trying to, putting yourself back under "the condemnaton of the law." But correct as to spiritual condition of the offerer and acceptance. You may have heard the story, from times past, of the man putting a gold coin into an offering, mistakenly, for a dime he intended, then saying oh, well, God will bless me for this...and being told, he would be blessed for the dime?
2. As to isolation...from NT perspective, attendance and fellowship are commandments and not options. OT was the same, both are being widely disregarded today; e.g. a falling away but whether the "great" one remains to be seen..
sevynn leverette said:Scriptures says you must leave your gift at the altar, and go settle things with your brother, before your offering is acceptable to YEWE???
Shalom
Scott Ledbetter said:Here is the problem with all of us getting along, I detest ecumenicalism and I have no use for any of man's philosophies, traditions, and commandments, whether they be Christian or Jewish. I only care what YHVH had to say. I do not read commentaries, for they are full of the wisdom of men. So how can to walk together unless they agree? Can you explain this to me please? How do you reconcile the differences between Aharon and myself based on the statements I have made? Would it be fair for you to ask Aharon to give up his Oral Torah to walk with me?
DUD MaKaBI (David Markus) said:I believe that oral Torah has some value. Filter, filter, filter! If it doesn't line up with Torah and prayer then toss it! . What I believe, is that putting a fence around a commandment is OK as we see in the Prophets the use of Oral Torah. When it becomes adding to or taking away from Torah then it's like building the fence so high that it collapses in on the original commandment. I am not sola scripture as it has been put but, come on people! Judaism has adopted just as much paganism and baggage as christianity has, It's not about being Jewish or Gentile anymore in the sense we know it today, it's about people uniting in the One True Aleim of Israel! Let us stop this division, and be brothers! May Yeweh unite us, and guide us all to the truth!
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Permalink Reply by Joe L. Henderson on
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False or occultic teaching and practice? Read up on Cain and his progeny!
DUD MaKaBI (David Markus) said:Thank you sevynn, This is what I was trying to say in my previous posts! Also Scott I never said that you weren't divinely inspired, or that Aharon was or wasn't. I agree with sevynn, that you both have a lot of insight. I am not taking sides, on this. I was just trying to be a peacemaker. Forgive me for not knowing enough about this, as I am asking Aleim for answers to these same questions being presented on both sides.
Thank you.
sevynn leverette said:This reads quite like a ruling against; maybe the Sages, Priets, Prophets and the Rabbi's have a point?
It seems you have taken a rough template of mishna to formulate your thoughts to present for others to follow?
There is always a time to pray, fast, and meditate, and develop commentary being led by the Ruach haQodesh, slow to anger,slow to speak, and respond by the fruit of the Spirit in which no Torah can come against!
I can see much insight and wisdom in both you and Aharon, we should all oppose anything violating Torah, to correctly divide the Torah of Truth, in that we all agree.
Let us all create, fashion, and form our minds into one thought and one opinion, since there is only One Teacher!
Baruch haShem YEWE.
Scott Ledbetter said:Look, if I went and studied every commentary and other work that men makes, then I could prove whatever they are wanting me to believe in. If I read all the works of Martin Luther, I could see and understand where he was coming from and understand his anti-Semitic teachings, because if I use his works to interpret Scripture, I come out with a Lutheran view of Scripture. If I used Calvin's works to interpret Scripture, I would come away with a Calvinistic point of view. If I use the Talmud to interpret Scripture for me, then I come away with a Jewish theological view point. But if the Jewish Theological view point was correct, then why did Yeshua come at all?
As some here have pointed out, some of the talmud is in error of Torah. if it is in error, then why follow any of it? I am sure Luther's and Calvin's works have some good stuff in them, but do I really trust men, who were not inspired, who taught false doctrines that went against Scripture for any Scriptural basis? The answer is no.
Theology is the study of God. It is a Greek term coming from Theos - God - and the suffix -ology which comes from Logos. This term is not used in Scripture at all, so why should we be using it? Theos was the title for all of the Greek gods and goddesses, so by saying you are studying theology, you are saying you are studying false gods. There is only one and His name is YHVH.
When I was studying with a Sephardi Rabbi, I saw pictures of centuries old Synagogues, and one of those Synagogues had a Zodiac chart with the symbols on the floor of the Synagogue. Forgive me, I do not remember which one it was. I have not studied Judaism and the Talmud since 2002. When were these things introduced into Judaism? During the Babylonian captivity. So before the time of Yeshua, we already see false teachings, doctrines, and false elohim already being introduced into the Jewish religion. The Talmud was not codefied until after the time of Yeshua. In it are the teachings of Rabbi's and Rabbinical halacha. How do we know that the sages that the Talmud refers to that were before the Talmud as codefied actually said what the Talmud says they did? We do not. The modern Rabbi's teach that Hillel or Shammai, or any of the others that came before the Talmud was codified, said what they said based on the what someone who came after Yeshua claim that they said. We do not have the original writings because it was Oral Torah. So you have to take the Rabbi's word that the sages actually said that.
So if you say that no ruling post Sanhedrin can be trusted, then how can you trust the Talmud at all? And are you going to say that the Sanhedrin, which ruled Yeshua a false Messiah figure and said He blasphemed, is a trusted source? The Sanhedrin in the time of Yeshua was actually stacked with Sadducee's, or as the modern Pharisee's like to say, Kararites. So you have Modern Pharisee's claiming to follow the rulings of the Sanhedrin that was a majority Sadducee and pronounced the death sentence on Yeshua. That is like saying that we should use the Biblia Hebraica version of the Tanach produced by Rudolph Kittle, who was both an anti-Semite and the father of Gerhard Kittle, the Christian voice of the Nazi's.
I will not accept carte blanche the words of someone who said that they were qoting a sage that did not live when those sages lived and was not quoting from something written but from the stories Rabbi's had told down through the centuries. The only way I want to see Scripture is how Scripture says to see it, and not through the biases and doctrines of someone else. Give me Scripture or give me death. There are far too many leaps of faith that one must take to take the Talmud as completely right, and knowing that there are things it teaches that goes against Scripture, then you can not take anything at all from it. If I gave you an orange that had a little mold on it, would you east around the mold? Of course you would not.
How do we know that any of the halacha that is ascribed to Moses in the Talmud actually came from Moses? How do we know that anything that is ascribed to any of the sages that came before the first century actually are what they said and taught without any change? We do not. I have been criticized because I do not remember every piece of Talmud teaching that I received 7+ years ago. And if I remember something, but it is not accurate, if nothing was written down to correct me, then how would anyone know if I got it wrong or not? They would not. So this is why I can not and will not support the Talmud aka Oral Torah.
Note this about Kabbalah: "Kabbalah (Hebrew: קַבָּלָה, lit. "receiving") is a discipline and school of thought concerned with the mystical aspect of Judaism. It is a set of esoteric teachings that is meant to explain the relationship between an infinite, eternal and essentially unknowable Creator with the finite and mortal universe of His creation. In solving this paradox, Kabbalah seeks to define the nature of the universe and the human being, the nature and purpose of existence, and various other ontological questions. It also presents methods to aid understanding of these concepts and to thereby attain spiritual realization. Kabbalah originally developed entirely within the milieu of Jewish thought and constantly uses classical Jewish sources to explain and demonstrate its esoteric teachings. These teachings are thus held by kabbalists to define the inner meaning of both the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) and traditional rabbinic literature, as well as to explain the significance of Jewish religious observances.
According to the Zohar, considered the main foundational text for kabbalistic thought ("Kabbalah Iyunit"-Contemplative Kabbalah, as opposed to "Kabbalah Maasit"-Practical Kabbalah[2]), Torah study uses four levels of interpretation (exegesis) of its text.[3] [4] Their initial letters spell "PaRDeS" ("Orchard"):
* Peshat (lit. "simple"): the direct interpretations of meaning.
* Remez (lit. "hint[s]"): the allegoric meanings (through allusion).
* Derash (from Heb. darash: "inquire" or "seek"): midrashic (Rabbinic) meanings, often with imaginative comparisons with similar words or verses.
* Sod (lit. "secret" or "mystery"): the inner, esoteric (metaphysical) meanings, expressed in kabbalah.
Kabbalah is considered, by its followers, as a necessary part of the study of Torah – the study of Torah (the "Teachings" of God, in the Tanach and Rabbinic literature) being an inherent duty of observant Jews.[5] Kabbalah teaches doctrines that are accepted by some Jews as the true meaning of Judaism while other Jews have rejected these doctrines as heretical and antithetical to Judaism. After the Medieval Kabbalah, and especially after its 16th Century development and synthesis, Kabbalah replaced "Hakira" (Jewish philosophy) as the mainstream traditional Jewish theology, both in scholarly circles and in the popular imagination. With the arrival of modernity, through the influence of Haskalah, this has changed among non-Orthodox Jewish denominations, though its 20th Century academic study and cross-denominational spiritual applications (especially through Neo-Hasidism), has reawakened a following beyond Orthodoxy.
The origins of the actual term Kabbalah are unknown and disputed to belong either to Jewish philosopher Solomon ibn Gabirol (1021–1058) or else to the 13th century CE Spanish Kabbalist Bahya ben Asher. While other terms have been used in many religious documents from the 2nd century CE up to the present day, the term "Kabbalah" has become the main descriptive of Jewish esoteric knowledge and practices. The Kabbalistic literature, which served as the basis for the development of Kabbalistic thought, divides between early works from the 1st-2nd centuries CE (such as the Heichalot texts and the earliest existant book on Jewish esotericism "Sefer Yetzirah"); Medieval works around the 13th century CE (of which the main book is the Zohar); and early-modern developments, especially 16th century Safed (Cordoveran and Lurianic Kabbalah) and 18th century Eastern Europe (Hasidism and Lithuanian Jewish Orthodox interpretations).
According to Kabbalistic tradition, knowledge was transmitted orally by the Patriarchs, prophets, and sages (Hakhamim in Hebrew), eventually to be "interwoven" into Jewish religious writings and culture. According to this tradition, Kabbalah was, in around the 10th century BCE, an open knowledge practiced by over a million people in ancient Israel,[6] although there is little objective historical evidence to support this thesis."
There is no proof of Kabbalah being from before the 11th century. It is a tradition and those that hold to it claim you can not fully understand Scripture or Rabbinical teachings - Talmud - without it. Sure it claims that by tradition to be before the time of Yeshua, but once again, nothing was written down, and so there is no proof and you have to take someone's word who took someones work who took someone's word on it all the ay back to the 11th or 13th centuries. Now, what is the definition of esoteric? Merriam-Webster defines esoteric as: designed for or understood only by the specially initiated. That sounds like the Mason's, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and other secret societies. Where in Scripture is this even encouraged? It is not, but esoteric studies, of which witchcraft is, is forbidden in Scripture.
There is in a nutshell why I cannot accept anything from the Talmud/Oral Torah and/or the Kabbalah. I am sure that either Aharon and/or others will try to nit pick all of this apart and to justify why they submit to them, or else I will be sent packing from this site. For this reason, I will post this on another site(s) to make sure that this knowledge is not lost.
Scott
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