Debate with a Jehovah's witness

Shalom aleychem akhim,

I have this good friend that lives a stones throw away from me who has been with the Jehova's witnesses for quite some time and he and i always love to talk about ofcourse common interests like the Bible.

Now, he has learned alot from me (which he says alot of times that he does learn alot from me) like the fact that the "Greek NT" was actually written in Aramaic and is called the Peshitta.

but ofcourse he being a christian and i a Nazarene we (just like in the old days of our forefathers in faith) have an ongoing dabate about indeed the Torah and it's meaning for us today and after the Ressurection of Yeshua...
I have shown him the following study which opend my eyes about the entire "circumcision debate", see: http://www.lightofmashiach.org/circumcision.html

Now after doing this study with him today he told me i had alot of valid points and that he now understands really what Nazarenes and our theology is all about but he still did not budge on saying that he might eventually turn away from the JH witnesses but now that he knows he can't misuse paul's words on "circumcision and un-circumcision" he just goes on to say different things which are;

* How can we still abide by shabbat and all that "stuff" i mean that has been done away with because "jesus" died and rose and by doing that he has done away with the "old law" and has brought in the "new law of love, the law of christ"...

can anyone give me some more tips and verses that i should use to show him flat out that Torah is still in power by the words of paul because he seems to misuse them the most ....

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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on December 30, 2010 at 6:48am

so you really had a tour, and you should have found out that i am in no habit of lashon hara. right? yea, indeed, i may be intellectually arrogant but i am no lashon hara. that's one thing you should bear in mind and stop accusing me that.

thanks for making me very popular this time. and i don't care if you dislike me. i am here to share and to learn, not to seek approval nay force others into what i believe.

we are here because of faith in Yeshua and Torah. i don't care what others believe and they don't care of mine: why are you interested of me? is this the first time you see a beautiful woman? :) Lol. (joke)

shira if you have nothing to do, please don't do it here. look for some other productive affairs.

if you have anything to complain about my position please create a thread for the subject where you and i and everyone may share idea. this thread is Ishmael's so don't hijack.

behave your self.

Shira said:

Now why am I not afraid of a Mohammed affirming, deity of Messiah rejecting and third temple nullifying anyone. For three good reasons. You're an Orthodox Jew and all are welcome here, but when they attack others for not holding the same belief system by calling them liars and sorcerers and anti semites well that is

just abrasive and rude. I looked through your posts as you asked me to and found out alot about you.

Here Beryl let's all travel down your rabbit hole [your remarks in red for the blood of innocent ones that you shed due to your disagreeing with them]:

Just some of your outlandish and disrespectful remarks:

Beryl in support of the whole Talmud:

“if you do not create fence around torah, do you have the balls right now to execute in one day a bloody capital punishment against a hundred or more shabbat violators? the problem with guys like your thought is that you are judging our people on matters you don't even understand.”

Beryl admitting she agrees that the curse of the Nazarenes in the daily amidah is perfectly fine and she prays it daily:

“Plus, read the curse written in the `Amida, there's nothing bad about it. Not even on par with Dawidh cursing his enemies... who wouldn't want wanton sinners destroyed until complete destruction or until repentance?”

“i am praying amidah straight with berkat haminim in sure confidence.”

Beryl teaching men that:

if you don't wipe your bottom.... please don't go out, your own people will stone you.

Beryl submits to Rabbinic UNBELIEVING Rabbi’s:

i was attending synagogue before i came to believe in messiah. today i am still attending the same synagogue ..

Beryl framing a man named Andrew that he is a drunk and speaks to people condescendingly as if she speaks for the entire network:

you sound like a magistrate delivering a final judgment to others. who made you a god? too much drinking will make one to forget about himself.

can you list down here your alleged "false teachings" and demonstrate before us with enough reason (if no scholarship is available) to prove the verity of your statement? if you cannot answer the challenge here, people will only think that you are another fraud and lie. so present you list of false teachings. then prove them beyond doubt that they are false.

i object to your private judgment and drunken conclusions.

---------

Wow the epitomy of arrogance! Here she is teaching all of us this error:

There shall be no more Temple in the temple mount. Period.

Wow! No third Temple in the temple mount!

Then she calls someone else a liar who has a different opinion:

why, were you there listening when they *spoke*? (you are a liar)

Who is Beryl, what does she believe:

i am an orthodox jew .......my NT canon is very small: only Matyahu, Yaakov and Hebrews....I smoke on sabbath.

She asks:

“ if i will not believe in divinity of Yeshua, will my *faith* in his messianic /redemptive works have no effect such that i am not purified from sins?”

Someone asks Beryl, why she is so abrasive:

"Once again, why is the spirit of a simple discussion have to be so abrasive?"

Beryl answers:

because the gentiles *honed* me so.

Bottomline, Beryl justifies her rudeness, in that if you do not agree with her authoritative opinion on things, she has a right to call you an antisemite, a liar, a sorcerer, etc. It is YOUR fault if you do not agree with her, so she may call you anything she wants as it is justified by HER LAW, while she regularly flatters the forum owner and uses here knowledge of Hebrew to sway people here into not questioning her rudeness.

She is a self admitted Mohammed promoter, an anti deity of Yeshua promoter and a third temple nullifier. And if you complain about her rudeness, she attacks more. She calls people 'thoughtless bible-mongers', feels she has the right to condemn people who disagree with her as 'evil or heretics'.

stop lying. your premise said: "That is not Biblical." i did not put the words in your mouth, i only read it from what you wrote.......explain it to us. otherwise i would take you as a mere thoughtless bible-monger complaining about something but offers no adequate solution.

don't get lost off topic and be misunderstood: make your self clear otherwise you are condemned as an evil or heretic.

Now she talks down to another sister who she disagrees with and condescendingly tells her not to play things of scholars and experts. I have a question is Beryl an expert? Jews really believe Mohammed is a true prophet, that there will not be a third Temple? I think not. Someone is delusional:

ah don't preoccupy your self to the play things of scholars and experts. that is vanity. it is not important. to tell you the truth you can stay "tamim" walking perfect before G-d by keeping the things written in torah. just profess the needed intellectual humility. for me, i don't care what scholars are mumbling about manuscripts found in some caves; for they are nothing compared to what has been kept and walked upon by my people for the past two thousand years.

Now she attempts to give a lesson in mutual respect and again says 'we' here at this forum, as if she is talking for all of us here whom many of just disagree with her theology to begin with. She wants to be Lord of the Jews here, but she is not courteous to others, finds reason to slam anyone she disagrees with and is altogether arrogant calling this person insane and an idiot while she reports to try to give them lessons in dialogue:

if you want to get a good answer ask a good question. we are not paid teachers who are under obligation to fathom into the insanity of your idiot questioning. you are not paying any tuition fees to anyone here. so be courteous to self correct your questioning accordingly if so required. in naz space all men are equal. so do not act like you did in other spaces where you were automatically banned. this community here although contentious (because of open mindedness James Trimm granted us) we maintain mutual respect and unity in faith, and generally, fairly similar halachic practice although we hold differences in some points.

Beryl, a woman teaches all of us that Mohammed is a true prophet.

beryl etanah said:

i'd sugest we do not slight the muslims here, since we are for peace.

religion is not something "done" by arguments over terms. it is something done by keeping the will of G-d.

you say mahomed was a false prophet, but i personally regard him (peace be to him) as one true prophet for some special divine intentions that you or me cannot fathom yet this time.

No Beryl, I'm sorry, alot of that stuff is pure Jezebel theology. You simply throw tantrums with words

when you disagree with people.

You don't teach me or anyone else here anything but your reckless tongue against those who disagree.

If you want to push me around and harass me for defending a brother against your wild evil speech,

then you will have a truthful based argument. You need to humble yourself and learn how to be kind

and tolerate those who disagree with you in a mature way. I'm not going to put up with your

continued brashness without a voice of reason. Just like the man you were harassing, he saw it

early on and deleted the thread when you began your abuse and he was wise!

beryl etanah said:

why..... do you have that prophet now?

i can show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Shira said:

Oy Gevalt! I'm shaking my head in disbelief.

beryl etanah said:

.
There shall be no more Temple in the temple mount. Period.

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Permalink Reply by 命 on December 30, 2010 at 8:12am

You saw it before me this time, Rick. And I think you are right; it's you-know-who.

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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on December 30, 2010 at 9:56am

hmmm, how quick you are and Rick T. yea, i agree it's a case of you-know-who.:)

i have sensed it the first post she made to defend the one from a far out planet. but so soon i realized when she began to pour down her words and it becomes easily obvious: the language, the style, the diction... and so on. just a sample:

look at this egocentric mumble, she is persecuting me but look how she pretends to excuse herself saying:

"If you want to push me around and harass me..."!

see, that's particularly very familiar right? and i think it is time to ignore a loquacious woman like that. :)

Christian said:

You saw it before me this time, Rick. And I think you are right; it's you-know-who.

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Permalink Reply by Mikha El on May 6, 2012 at 10:29am

Getting back on topic here again...

Can anyone add anything to this list on how Jehovah Witness theology differs from Nazarene Judaism theology? I was speaking with a fairly knowledgeable JW on Friday and was surprised to hear they keep Passover/UB. She asked me for a list of theological differences I had with them. (I drew a blank, until now, except for the no transfusions issue.)

1) Deity of Messiah

a) Messiah a "god" but not "thee" "god".

b) "Holy Spirit" only a force. (..like the wind)

2) Gather on sun-day's.

(Descended from William Miller (1820 Baptist "Minister")

(Descended from "Church of god" 7th Day / Worldwide "Church of god")

3) Do not believe in the immortality of the "soul". They say, "You" cease to exist until the resurrection". ("soul sleep" The soul is gone!)

4) Resurrection theology:

a)If you die evil: You cease to exist. NO "HELL"! "Hell" is allegorical. It annihilates the "soul" so it ceases to exist".

b)If you die "good": "The 144,000 positions were filled before 1914. Now you will be part of the "great multitude".

5) OK not to eat kosher.

6) Torah is extinct.