Could those wild Gentile branches grafted in really be Ephraim?
Yeshua said he came for the lost tribes. Could it that the Gentiles that are grafted in are really Ephraim?
Is the whole plan of salvation exclusively with the 12 tribes?
What do my brothers on here think?
Is the whole plan of salvation exclusively with the 12 tribes?
What do my brothers on here think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Shawn on -
As best I can tell yes, the "wild" branches could be refering to Ephraim. What group of people is more wild the Ephraim? Again as best I can tell the plan of salvation is exclusively to the twelve tribes. Israels job is to "heal" the nations. Fix Israel first, then they fix the nations.
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Permalink Reply by James Pierce on -
Shawn,
Interesting my problem. I have been having that feeling for awhile. Some kind of awakening.. like I am part of Ephraim or something of that nature. HaShem will be awakening His people scattered out in the nations.
Shawn said:As best I can tell yes, the "wild" branches could be refering to Ephraim. What group of people is more wild the Ephraim? Again as best I can tell the plan of salvation is exclusively to the twelve tribes. Israels job is to "heal" the nations. Fix Israel first, then they fix the nations.
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on -
I absolutely believe that the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel = Ephraim, the 10 tribes in dispersion. James Trimm's podcast "Truth Talk" has an excellent teaching on it... Also see yourarmstoisrael.org, Rabbi Moshe has one of the most thorough teachings on the subject I have ever heard. His True Names Restoration Scriptures (though not 100% perfect) is a must read, a VERY valuable source of Two-House prophetic truth.
And yes, James Pierce; Yahweh is calling His children from the scattered ten tribes. We are awakening to His Truth and His Message, and most importantly, coming out of Babylon/Assyria/Egypt/Captivity and into the Light of Torah.
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Permalink Reply by Yishmael on -
James Pierce said:Shawn,
Interesting my problem. I have been having that feeling for awhile. Some kind of awakening.. like I am part of Ephraim or something of that nature. HaShem will be awakening His people scattered out in the nations.
Shawn said:As best I can tell yes, the "wild" branches could be refering to Ephraim. What group of people is more wild the Ephraim? Again as best I can tell the plan of salvation is exclusively to the twelve tribes. Israels job is to "heal" the nations. Fix Israel first, then they fix the nations.
the Yisraelites observe wearing Tefillin since the days of Moshe rabbeinu, i don't think anyone can "awaken" if they don't even try to observe what Allah shows them..
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on
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DUD MaKaBI (David Markus) said:Interesting Serkan how can you take a stab at James Pierce for not laying tefillin, yet you don't wear tzitzit? Let's not judge. We are being called and the awakening is happening, We are all in different levels in observance and ideas.
Well said. Brothers, let us reason these things over with kind words in all we do, and not with slanderous accusations. We all fundamentally agree on these two things: Yahshua is our Messiah, and we follow Torah out of love and devotion for Yahweh the Creator.
How we go about following the commandments of the Torah and the Messiah is, to some degree, open to interpretation, and as such we should respect one another's interpretation of these commandments. For instance, some see the Tefilin and Mezuzah as figurative, while others see them as literal.
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on
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Aharon S. .אהרון ס said:
It is a proven fact that the original Israelites wrapped tefillin and took these verses literally and figuratively. There are many solid Biblical references to the Jewish Oral Tradition. I don't think there is room for such interpretation when these things are solid historically and Biblically proven. Of course, there are more modern issues of halakha which can be argued, no doubt, but final rule is left to the future supreme Sanhedrin. I'm not a big fan of personal interpretation, I am for Jewish Oral Tradition.
Aaron, with all due respect, historical records are "sketchy" at best. We may know that a group of people who are considered to be Israelites may have followed the command a certain way.
As far as Jewish tradition is concerned; Jewish tradition is fine for the House of Judah, but the House of Ephraim is called to come back straight and upright, as a new creation; if they're doing something "just because" that's how the Jews do it, they aren't really a new creation.
As a side note, I have absolutely no "problem" with Jewish tradition, or Nazarene Judaism, or anything of the sort. I study Jewish tradition, and will openly concede that there is a Biblical backing to most (but not all) of it. However, Jewish tradition is most certainly not the only way to correctly follow the Torah.
As (another) a side note, I firmly believe that the only "Oral Torah" you need is the teachings of Yahshua. He IS the Oral Torah, the Living Voice. He came to correctly interpret Torah; He IS sufficient.
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Permalink Reply by Shawn on
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J Jury...Something to consider...The NT is not a book on Yeshua's oral Torah. The NT is just a tiny tiny scratch at the surface of what Yeshua's oral Torah would have been. When Paul said keep the traditions as we have handed them down, do you think was just refering to Mat, mark, luke, and John? The NT was never ever ever intended to be our sole source of how to understand the Tanak or "our oral Torah". There was an actual oral Torah that was maintained by Yeshua and Paul... and the only guys who have maintained an oral Torah is Judaism. In most ways their oral Torah is the same as Yeshua's, especially in regards to aggadah. Now if you wish to say certain aspects of halacha dont match Yeshua's thats understood. But we as Ephraimite cant keep repeating the same errors of pride and rebellion against the house of Judah. In the story of the prodigal son it is the younger son who returns to the older and not vice versa. When Yeshua was speaking to the samaritan/ephraimite woman at the well he told her "Salvation is from Judah...You know not what you worship...we know what we worship" It is good that Yeshua was talking to her cause someone with less tact might have said " you guys are all screwed up and rebelious, repent and listen to the house of Judah, cause you aint ever gonna figure it out on your own." PS ten men (ephraim) shall grab hold of the zitzit (torah/oral torah) of a Jew (house of Judah). I say this because I had the same way of thinking as you posted about ephraim, but I have recently started to get a good look at our arrogance...its not a pretty sight.
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Permalink Reply by James Pierce on
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I want to know about getting citizen ship in Israel. Why is it hard for those who are not Jews to get in and settle? How is it actually living there in Israel?
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Permalink Reply by James Pierce on
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Rick,
I have nothing against my brother Judah, only that he has taken on man-made traditions, and fenced it around the written Torah.
Rick & Debbie Toole said:James, while I am not telling you what to do , we must first ( Ephraim ) see ourseleves as the
Prodigal son spoke of in Luke 15 , One does not have to look far to see the agnst between Judah and Ephraim . Epharim has to let loose of the stiff necked view of him alone and realize,
we don't make the rules . As one reads on , we see in verse 28-32 a Feast . Our goal is unity
James Pierce said:I want to know about getting citizen ship in Israel. Why is it hard for those who are not Jews to get in and settle? How is it actually living there in Israel?
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Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on -
Thus says YEWE of hosts, In those days ten men from all languages of the nations take hold,yes, they shall take hold of the edge ofthe garment of a man a Yahudite, saying "Let us go with you, for you have heard the Most High Authority is with you." "I have only come for the lost sheep of Yisrael" The sceptre shall not turn aside from Yahudah, nor a Torah giver from between his feetuntil Shiloh comes;and He has come; and to Him is obedience of peoples. The blessings of your father have excelled the blessings of my ancesters, up to the limit of everlasting hills. They are on the head of Yosef, and on the crown of the head of him "WHO WAS SEPARATED FROM HIS BROTHERS!" And He was Sovereign in Yeshurun when the heads of the people were gathered the tribes of Yisrael.
Efrayim was separated from Yahudah by the command of YEWE! He chose to discipline them for their type of worship. Yahudah has no say in the return of Efrayim, since they were more treacherous than their sister. Efrayim can only return straight and upright and provoke their brothers to jealousy. My sheep will know my Voice and follow Me, He is the correct interpretation of the Torah. With the Ruach haQodesh present Efrayim does not need Yahudah to teach tem Torah. But the anointing whch you have recieved rom Him stas in you, ad you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as the same anointing does teach you concerning all, and s true and no falsehood, and even as it has taught you, you stay in Him.
Shalom
James Pierce said:Rick,
I have nothing against my brother Judah, only that he has taken on man-made traditions, and fenced it around the written Torah.
Rick & Debbie Toole said:James, while I am not telling you what to do , we must first ( Ephraim ) see ourseleves as the
Prodigal son spoke of in Luke 15 , One does not have to look far to see the agnst between Judah and Ephraim . Epharim has to let loose of the stiff necked view of him alone and realize,
we don't make the rules . As one reads on , we see in verse 28-32 a Feast . Our goal is unity
James Pierce said:I want to know about getting citizen ship in Israel. Why is it hard for those who are not Jews to get in and settle? How is it actually living there in Israel?
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on -
i am not for oral torah because I LIVE BY THE ORAL torah
no wonder why oral torah is not expounded in the NT, oral torah is a way of jewish life it can only be seen, heard, touched and felt in the life of the jew. mashikha and his talmidim did live their lives under the oral and written torah. but one thing to bear in mind is this-- their ministry (mission) was not about oral torah it is about the life and redemptive works of mashikha to become the savior to all mankind, not only for the jews. so, if we want to take on torah we don't go to catholic church nor to a baptist minister. fully qualified rabbis of orthodox judaism are the qualified technicians about the field.
Aharon S. .אהרון ס said:J. Jury, you said:
"How we go about following the commandments of the Torah and the Messiah is, to some degree, open to interpretation, and as such we should respect one another's interpretation of these commandments. For instance, some see the Tefilin and Mezuzah as figurative, while others see them as literal."
It is a proven fact that the original Israelites wrapped tefillin and took these verses literally and figuratively. There are many solid Biblical references to the Jewish Oral Tradition. I don't think there is room for such interpretation when these things are solid historically and Biblically proven. Of course, there are more modern issues of halakha which can be argued, no doubt, but final rule is left to the future supreme Sanhedrin. I'm not a big fan of personal interpretation, I am for Jewish Oral Tradition.
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Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on
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James Pierce,
what is wrong if Judah has taken on man-made tradition? if you do not create fence around torah, do you have the balls right now to execute in one day a bloody capital punishment against a hundred or more shabbat violators? the problem with guys like your thought is that you are judging our people on matters you don't even understand.
tradition (Lat. "tradere" -to pass) are human customs-beliefs passed from one generation to another. jews are humans, not gods, why would anyone expect us to develop "god-made-traditions"? do you have it in your church? customs of men are man-made customs based on their beliefs thus they are necessarily man-made. have your pastor been to shomayim that he was able to gather god-made traditions from there to teach to you? even the baptists, anglicans, adventists, etc. they have internal manners of handling affairs and expressing their beliefs which are extra-biblical in origin and nature. how much more the jews? what use were the zekanim which moses instituted to judge our people if every generation will not pass to the next of their teachings? what counts of by G-d's commandment saying "vedebarta bahm" if what was to be valid is only to be written torah? so you see, the law is also spoken, not only written.
James Pierce said:Rick,
I have nothing against my brother Judah, only that he has taken on man-made traditions, and fenced it around the written Torah.
Rick & Debbie Toole said:James, while I am not telling you what to do , we must first ( Ephraim ) see ourseleves as the
Prodigal son spoke of in Luke 15 , One does not have to look far to see the agnst between Judah and Ephraim . Epharim has to let loose of the stiff necked view of him alone and realize,
we don't make the rules . As one reads on , we see in verse 28-32 a Feast . Our goal is unity
James Pierce said:I want to know about getting citizen ship in Israel. Why is it hard for those who are not Jews to get in and settle? How is it actually living there in Israel?
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