Tags:
Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on September 16, 2009 at 11:26am Thus says YEWE of hosts, In those days ten men from all languages of the nations take hold,yes, they shall take hold of the edge ofthe garment of a man a Yahudite, saying "Let us go with you, for you have heard the Most High Authority is with you." "I have only come for the lost sheep of Yisrael" The sceptre shall not turn aside from Yahudah, nor a Torah giver from between his feetuntil Shiloh comes;and He has come; and to Him is obedience of peoples. The blessings of your father have excelled the blessings of my ancesters, up to the limit of everlasting hills. They are on the head of Yosef, and on the crown of the head of him "WHO WAS SEPARATED FROM HIS BROTHERS!" And He was Sovereign in Yeshurun when the heads of the people were gathered the tribes of Yisrael.
Efrayim was separated from Yahudah by the command of YEWE! He chose to discipline them for their type of worship. Yahudah has no say in the return of Efrayim, since they were more treacherous than their sister. Efrayim can only return straight and upright and provoke their brothers to jealousy. My sheep will know my Voice and follow Me, He is the correct interpretation of the Torah. With the Ruach haQodesh present Efrayim does not need Yahudah to teach tem Torah. But the anointing whch you have recieved rom Him stas in you, ad you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as the same anointing does teach you concerning all, and s true and no falsehood, and even as it has taught you, you stay in Him.
Shalom
James Pierce said:Rick,
I have nothing against my brother Judah, only that he has taken on man-made traditions, and fenced it around the written Torah.
Rick & Debbie Toole said:James, while I am not telling you what to do , we must first ( Ephraim ) see ourseleves as the
Prodigal son spoke of in Luke 15 , One does not have to look far to see the agnst between Judah and Ephraim . Epharim has to let loose of the stiff necked view of him alone and realize,
we don't make the rules . As one reads on , we see in verse 28-32 a Feast . Our goal is unity
James Pierce said:I want to know about getting citizen ship in Israel. Why is it hard for those who are not Jews to get in and settle? How is it actually living there in Israel?
Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on September 17, 2009 at 4:54am Sevynn Leverette, your eloquence almost had me. you have said it well except i have few questions-
in saying "My sheep will know my Voice and follow Me, He is the correct interpretation of the Torah."
i get it right that He (Mashikha) IS (not only has) the correct interpretation of the Torah. But how can you assure me that you or anyone Efrahemite has the correct interpretation of torah? especially in matters concerning fine-grained halachot?
if your claim should extend to each one returning ephrahymite then necessarily each one of them is an halachic authority who has no need of anyone else to teach him. that would be a very special day worldwide, but that day is not today.
sevynn leverette said:Thus says YEWE of hosts, In those days ten men from all languages of the nations take hold,yes, they shall take hold of the edge ofthe garment of a man a Yahudite, saying "Let us go with you, for you have heard the Most High Authority is with you." "I have only come for the lost sheep of Yisrael" The sceptre shall not turn aside from Yahudah, nor a Torah giver from between his feetuntil Shiloh comes;and He has come; and to Him is obedience of peoples. The blessings of your father have excelled the blessings of my ancesters, up to the limit of everlasting hills. They are on the head of Yosef, and on the crown of the head of him "WHO WAS SEPARATED FROM HIS BROTHERS!" And He was Sovereign in Yeshurun when the heads of the people were gathered the tribes of Yisrael.
Efrayim was separated from Yahudah by the command of YEWE! He chose to discipline them for their type of worship. Yahudah has no say in the return of Efrayim, since they were more treacherous than their sister. Efrayim can only return straight and upright and provoke their brothers to jealousy. My sheep will know my Voice and follow Me, He is the correct interpretation of the Torah. With the Ruach haQodesh present Efrayim does not need Yahudah to teach tem Torah. But the anointing whch you have recieved rom Him stas in you, ad you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as the same anointing does teach you concerning all, and s true and no falsehood, and even as it has taught you, you stay in Him.
Shalom
James Pierce said:Rick,
I have nothing against my brother Judah, only that he has taken on man-made traditions, and fenced it around the written Torah.
Rick & Debbie Toole said:James, while I am not telling you what to do , we must first ( Ephraim ) see ourseleves as the
Prodigal son spoke of in Luke 15 , One does not have to look far to see the agnst between Judah and Ephraim . Epharim has to let loose of the stiff necked view of him alone and realize,
we don't make the rules . As one reads on , we see in verse 28-32 a Feast . Our goal is unity
James Pierce said:I want to know about getting citizen ship in Israel. Why is it hard for those who are not Jews to get in and settle? How is it actually living there in Israel?
Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on September 22, 2009 at 12:10am Ephraim is upright WITHOUT explanation and proper application of the written Torah? I think not!
Show me ALL of Yeshua`'s halakhoth, where are all his teachings. Volumes could fill what he said and did, and we don't know a small fraction of it. Is it lost? NOPE! =) They exist but Ephraim doesn't like them.
I can always tell if people have studied these things, as they say, or not. If you truly want to study Jewish Oral Tradition, I suggest an English translation of all Talmudic law (from various books) which has been codified stated plainly in the wonderful Mishne Torah by Rambam.
Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on September 22, 2009 at 3:51am
Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on September 22, 2009 at 10:05am
Permalink Reply by Shawn on September 22, 2009 at 10:19am
Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on September 23, 2009 at 11:59pm j jury it is unfair to impose paul's letter to gentile ephesians as the only source of proof for oral tradition, it is like using your own love letter alone as proof that my husband does not love me, that's too nasty unrealistic. bear in mind that nt is not a record of oral tradition but of the life and teachings of mashikha. what about if i take your same challenge this time i'd use talmud and midrashim as proof for oral torah? or if you don't honor these, let me use pentateuch to prove oral torah is divinely instituted? for actually neither can you prove your efrayim-ish doctrines apart from tanakh, so don't put anyone into the cage of that goyish epistle to ephesians if you want to talk about oral torah, or else i'd tell you "prove to me your efrayimish doctrines using the epistle to philemon" can you?
Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on September 24, 2009 at 12:08am
Permalink Reply by sevynn leverette on September 24, 2009 at 5:49am
Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on September 25, 2009 at 11:25am beryl etanah said:j jury it is unfair to impose paul's letter to gentile ephesians as the only source of proof for oral tradition, it is like using your own love letter alone as proof that my husband does not love me, that's too nasty unrealistic. bear in mind that nt is not a record of oral tradition but of the life and teachings of mashikha. what about if i take your same challenge this time i'd use talmud and midrashim as proof for oral torah? or if you don't honor these, let me use pentateuch to prove oral torah is divinely instituted? for actually neither can you prove your efrayim-ish doctrines apart from tanakh, so don't put anyone into the cage of that goyish epistle to ephesians if you want to talk about oral torah, or else i'd tell you "prove to me your efrayimish doctrines using the epistle to philemon" can you?
You actually make somewhat of a valid point; although I disagree with the actual outcome of your decision, I agree wiht the "how you got there" part. This is the same thing I keep saying... what's binding to the House of Judah (the oral torah, etc) is not binding for me as an Ephraimite. Logically, and conversely, what's binding for me (the Apostolic writings, what you deem to be "that goyish epistle to ephesians") isn't perhaps intended to be binding for the House of Judah.
Do we agree thus far?
Permalink Reply by beryl etanah on September 25, 2009 at 11:30am J Jury perhaps it would help to address some of your statements, as just a few years ago I had some of these very same thoughts.
Aharon... You are completely ignoring the fact that Yahweh Himself has separated the two kingdoms, Ephraim and Judah, and throughout Scripture and History the two have been COMPLETELY separate entities.
It is very true Hashem seperated the two houses into completely separate entities. But Hashem did not seperate them in order to create two different forms of Torah/oral Torah. In fact, right when the kingdom split Hashem told the northern kingdom that they should in all ways adhere to the Torah as was in the hands of Judah.
1 kings 11:38 "And it shall be if you obey all that I command you, and shall walk (Halacha) in my ways, and do what is right in my eyes, to guard my laws and my commands, AS MY SERVANT DAVID did..."
From the very beginning the northern kingdom was not to be seperated in order to create some alternate more pure form of serving Hashem. They were seperated soley to punish Shlomoh, but in all other ways they were to remain Torah and oral Torah observant Israelites.
He has caused each house to remain separate from one another; who are YOU to say that the houses should merge?
Again it is true that Hashem designated a specific time frame in which the houses were to be separate. Originally the time frame would not have been so long, but sincethe time EPHRAIMITES got their they have become EXTREMELY PRIDEFUL and REBELIOUS against the TORAH and their spiritual mentors THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. Because Ephraim rebelled they were cast into all nations and cut off from the covenant (Hoshea 1). As you stated above Aharon has no right to say when the houses should merge, but Yeshua did. According to Yeshua their time frame to be separate ended 2000 years ago.
John 11:51-52 "...Yeshua was about to die for the nation (Judah), and not for the nation only but to gather together into one the children of Elohim scattered (Ephraim) abroad."
Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, who has made both one, and having broken down the partition of the barrier..."
From Yeshua on, the mission has been to regather the COMPLETELY REBELIOUS AND WICKED AND IDOLATROUS AND STUBBORN AND PRIDEFUL EPHRAIMITES and bring them back to their brother Judah so that they can be re-educated in Torah both the revealed and hidden aspects of Torah. the NT speaks of that which is revealed and that which is hidden. These are idiomatic expressions for the written and oral Torah. ALWAYS REMEMBER THE STORY OF THE PRODIGAL SON. The younger brother is the one who is "far off". JUDAH IS THE ONE WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO HAS BEEN WITH THE FATHER........AND REMEMBER in the story of the prodigal son the Father said to JUDAH..."Son you are ALWAYS WITH ME, all I have is yours" YESHUA TEACHES US that the house of JUDAH is ALWAYS with the father and they have received all from him....all spiritual understanding and authority.
Yes, both are part of the Nation of Israel. And there is ONE Torah for both houses; but to say that Ephraim needs to come back to Judah (or learn Jewish Law) is completely contrary to how Yahweh has consistently acted throughout Scripture in keeping the two houses separate.
This statement kinda makes me sad. I think it is missing the essence of the whole story.
You have said Hashem has consistently acted throughout scriptures in keeping the two houses seperate. I would imagine nothing makes Hashem more sad than Israel being divided into two. Initially he seperated them, against his highest will/plan, to punish Shlomoh. He in no way desires thier seperation but for a time, though painful, was necessary. HOWEVER. ALWAYS KEEP THE PRODIGAL SON IN MIND. In the story of the prodigal son Yes, the father had two SEPARATE sons. BUT one of them choose to walk away. The fathers intent was that they stay side by side and work together and in most ways not even appear to be separate. BUT JOSEPH WALKED AWAY. Remember the fathers excitement when he saw Joseph returning from the dead and returning to his brother Judah. EACH STEP THAT WE TAKE TOWARDS JUDAH, IS A STEP TOWARDS THE FATHER, AND STEP TOWARDS PLEASING OUR FATHER. Further you said, that Hashem consistently through out scripture acted to keep the houses seperate. If you consider the NT scripture, then your statement is not true. the NT is entire manual on how to get the two houses back together. Most of that process is Ephraim relearning Torah, oral Torah, and sprituality from Judah.
Remember what Yeshua said to the Samaritan (Ephraimite woman)
John 4:22 "You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehudim (from the Jewish people)".
This was Yeshua's kind way of saying...You Ephraimites know absolutely nothing of spiritual matters. You are devoid of all good spiritual decision making. You are devoid of all spiritual understanding in matters of Torah. On the other hand we of the house of Judah, we rabbi's have maintained all spiritual understanding and all observance of Torah. We have every right to tell you what to do and what not to do.
Now Yeshua was/is a teacher of the oral Torah but he did take issue with the corrupt form of shammai oral Torah. but in almost all ways was in agreement with Hillel. So yes he correct Judah on certain small details, but for us, we have no right to...and our humility should prevent us....from even suggesting that we shouldnt be tainted with the oral Torah of Judah.....rather we should be greatful we have been allowed back to the table to eat such awesome spiritual food once again.
© 2013 Created by James Trimm.