a job that doesn't make you work on shabbat
shalom,
i'm having an extreme amount of difficulties finding a job that doesn't make you work on shabbat..
i live in Belgium (europe) and the situation is like this;
* all office or high placed jobs (which mostly don't make people work on saturday or late fridays) are out of my reach because i don't have a college/university diploma to get started
* if you don't have a diploma the jobs that don't requiere you to work on shabbat either want you to have A) experience, B) a driver's license or C) being able to work with a reach truck
guess what.. i don't have any of the above!!
* all that's left is working in stores, bars or plants... and guess what!!! all stores and pubs demand you work on saturday's (and mostly also fridaynights) and nowadays working in a "day regime" (which made sure you finished very early on friday's and never worked saturday's) in a plant has become almost extinct and all that's left now is working "2,3,5- or night-shift regimes" and all of those regimes make sure you work on Shabbat since you are demanded to work on friday night and sometimes even whole weekends...
so in a nutshell... i have no way whatsoever to get a job that doesn't requiere me to work on Shabbat.. i could go back to school but my parents are not giving in so school is also NOT an option.. and my parents are starting to get really really upset and think i'm being lazy and stubborn.. a practicing Nazarene family is willing to take me in so i could live with them, but will i not have the same problem with them ?? will i then become a pest to them, i don't want to do that....
i just don't know anymore.... PLEASE HELP ME :-(
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on -
Jesse, you are basing your beliefs on unjustified context. the key is always context. the writers expect you to understand. it is quite obvious, so obvious that it shouldn't have to be said, that if it says "he who does not provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever" it means he who does not provide for his family when he is righteously able to is worse than an unbeliever. Jesse, would you suggest people in exile worship false gods in order to provide for their family? if not, you are being inconsistent. for, you said that no matter what, you must provide for your family, even if you must break Yahuwah's commandments. And that to me is pretty immoral. Further, you use the exile as an excuse to not keep Torah when its "difficult". Don't you that there was nothing different with Torah keeping in exile and torah keeping in rebellious sinful Yisrael? Yisrael has for the most part been a rebellious nation to its creator, as the Tanakh records faithfully. Notice Eliyahu was one of only 7000 Yisraelim among millions of Yisraelim, and so, keeping Torah in Yisrael has always been similar to keeping Torah in exile: difficult and unpopular.
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on -
There is no proof for any of this, aside from your (subjective) "philosophical" point of view.
Scripture says that he who does not provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever... period. I take it at face value, that if I am able to get a job that will put food on the table, then by God, I'm going to do it.
Now (this is my own subjective point of view) I would argue that if, given the chance between a job that pays adequately and gives you Sabbath off vs. a job that pays much better but requires you to work on the Sabbath, it would be wrong to take the job that pays better,
But face the facts, Brother Andrew, life does function differently in the land of dispersion.
Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:Jesse, you are basing your beliefs on unjustified context. the key is always context. the writers expect you to understand. it is quite obvious, so obvious that it shouldn't have to be said, that if it says "he who does not provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever" it means he who does not provide for his family when he is righteously able to is worse than an unbeliever. Jesse, would you suggest people in exile worship false gods in order to provide for their family? if not, you are being inconsistent. for, you said that no matter what, you must provide for your family, even if you must break Yahuwah's commandments. And that to me is pretty immoral. Further, you use the exile as an excuse to not keep Torah when its "difficult". Don't you that there was nothing different with Torah keeping in exile and torah keeping in rebellious sinful Yisrael? Yisrael has for the most part been a rebellious nation to its creator, as the Tanakh records faithfully. Notice Eliyahu was one of only 7000 Yisraelim among millions of Yisraelim, and so, keeping Torah in Yisrael has always been similar to keeping Torah in exile: difficult and unpopular.
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on
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In response to the original post:
If you can find a job working overnight, I find it is easier to accommodate the request for Sabbath off because it involves just one day (Friday night) vs. a two day arrangement.
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Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on
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Funny, Jesse, you have said elsehwere that you don't view something in Scripture as correct if it contradicts Torah. So, could not Paul's words contradict Torah?
Can you show me where in Scripture that life functions differently in the land of dispersion?
You never answered my question about worshipping false gods to feed your family. Jesse, i think you owe it to us to tell us if you think it is better to worship false gods in order to feed your family or to not worshi pfalse gods and your family to starve to death. which do you believce is better?
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Permalink Reply by CJC on -
Shalom: Regarding finding a job that does not require you to work on Shabbat:
1)You are not married and have no children?
2) You live with your parents?
3) The Law teaches that we are not to *GULP* from the cup our parents offer us.
4) It is time for you to live on your own and learn ho to fill your own cup. You cannot have an overflow if you never fill the cup yourself.
5) I do not know the filed for which you are trained; Many jobs DO allow for working on Shabbat. Medical, and other crisis services DO require and allow for such work. You may find that a combination of other part-time jobs will help you to fulfill *your obligation* to step up to self sufficiency.
Sincerely, CJC/rebeitzen
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Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on
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I personally think its okay to live with your parents if your parents are okay with it, but you must not just be lazy, but you must do the work of the kingdom in all your days. besides, if you are conflicted about staying with your parents, you can always offer them a loan, in which you will pay them back once you get a good job. Torah commands us to give loans to those in need who are trying to become selfdependent but can't.
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Permalink Reply by 命 on
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1. Timotheos 5:8 But if any one does not provide for his own, and specially for those of his house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than the unbeliever.
While I have great respect and love for this passage, I don't think I would take a job that required work on the sabbath if I had other options.
I think it is important to note that Paul is not adding to the Torah in any way; he is clarifying the application of the Torah to family economics.
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on
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Andrew, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there is a GREAT deal of difference between breaking the sabbath- especially for the sake of "doing good", i.e. taking care of one's family- and worshiping false gods.
And please- for the love of God- tell me that you don't honestly think there is no difference in living in a Torah observant community and living in the land of dispersion, especially one that favors gentile Christianity.
The Torah was given to a community that was designed to be under the rule of YHWH, not the rule of pagan nations. As such, it is not responsible (or logical) to assume that every aspect of Torah is going to function the same in the land of dispersion. In fact, if you read Deuteronomy 28-30 very carefully, I hope you'll notice that it doesn't.
Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:Funny, Jesse, you have said elsehwere that you don't view something in Scripture as correct if it contradicts Torah. So, could not Paul's words contradict Torah?
Can you show me where in Scripture that life functions differently in the land of dispersion?
You never answered my question about worshipping false gods to feed your family. Jesse, i think you owe it to us to tell us if you think it is better to worship false gods in order to feed your family or to not worshi pfalse gods and your family to starve to death. which do you believce is better?
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on
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"Self sufficiency only comes to those who work for it." - The Book of Jesse, Saying 28.
Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
I personally think its okay to live with your parents if your parents are okay with it, but you must not just be lazy, but you must do the work of the kingdom in all your days. besides, if you are conflicted about staying with your parents, you can always offer them a loan, in which you will pay them back once you get a good job. Torah commands us to give loans to those in need who are trying to become selfdependent but can't.
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on
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It's the "if I had other options" part that I'm harping on. Frequently, we have no other options, and just might have to do something we don't "like" to achieve the greater good, as in, breaking the sabbath to provide food for one's family.
Christian said:
1. Timotheos 5:8 But if any one does not provide for his own, and specially for those of his house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than the unbeliever.
While I have great respect and love for this passage, I don't think I would take a job that required work on the sabbath if I had other options.
I think it is important to note that Paul is not adding to the Torah in any way; he is clarifying the application of the Torah to family economics.
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Permalink Reply by Onieu bahn Duid on
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"Andrew, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there is a GREAT deal of difference between breaking the sabbath- especially for the sake of "doing good", i.e. taking care of one's family- and worshiping false gods."
really? both seem to merit the death penalty to me.
"And please- for the love of God- tell me that you don't honestly think there is no difference in living in a Torah observant community and living in the land of dispersion, especially one that favors gentile Christianity."
You said being exile versus being in Yisrael. You do realize that Yisrael isn't necessarily faithful to Torah, right? So, even in Yisrael, i bet you might still not keep certain parts of Torah if it were convenient due to Yisrael's nature.
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Permalink Reply by J. Jury (אליהוא) on
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"both seem to merit the death penalty to me."
Alright- you're going to have to do your homework on this one. Who was supposed to put a man to death for breaking the Sabbath?
"You said being exile versus being in Yisrael. You do realize that Yisrael isn't necessarily faithful to Torah, right? So, even in Yisrael, i bet you might still not keep certain parts of Torah if it were convenient due to Yisrael's nature."
Try to look at the "big picture" for a moment. Even Israel (at their most wicked) was still configured in a social / economic / communal way that was at least based upon the Torah. Even at their most wicked, the core of their society was established differently than the land of dispersion, in which our society is based upon following man's rules. America is predominantly based on Roman Catholicism, not so much in religious doctrine, but in facts laid down for everyday life.
Gregorian calendar? check.
Sunday worship? check.
Easter and Christmas? check.
The list goes on. The fact of the matter is that life is different in the diaspora than it is in the land. It just is.
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